The mindset of an anarcho-capitalist voluntarist - Page 3

Nielsio · #21 08-22-2007, 02:05 PM

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Isn't voting OK by AC standards if it's in "self-defense"?

So then, couldn't supporting taxes (as the life blood of a minimalist state) be OK, if for no reason other than you feel worldwide sentiment makes states inevitable, and you feel you need one to protect yourself?

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Q: If I vote, am I an authoritarian?
A: Most people who vote are authoritarians in their ideas (statists), however writing on a piece of paper is itself not an act of violent aggression. For example: anyone can declare war on a country but it really doesn't matter much. What matters is what you *do*.

Q: I support voluntary interactions in most cases, but I believe there are times when coercive force is justified, outside of direct self-defense. Am I a voluntaryist?
A: Voluntarism is a moral principle. Moral principles are universal statements. Either you support the principle universally or you can not be said to hold it. If you hold that violent aggression is justified in some cases then you are an authoritarian because you think that the moral principle does not exist!
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2363188212

nietzreznor · #22 08-22-2007, 02:16 PM

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Isn't voting OK by AC standards if it's in "self-defense"?

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ACists are pretty divided over this issue; I tend to think that voting as a means of self-defense is acceptable, but many on here disagree.

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So then, couldn't supporting taxes (as the life blood of a minimalist state) be OK, if for no reason other than you feel worldwide sentiment makes states inevitable, and you feel you need one to protect yourself?

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This seems unacceptable, since supporting harm against others (taxes) in order to possibly protect yourself doesn't meash well with traditional libertarian emphasis on the ends not justifying the means.

ALawPoker · #23 08-22-2007, 02:26 PM

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This seems unacceptable, since supporting harm against others (taxes) in order to possibly protect yourself doesn't meash well with traditional libertarian emphasis on the ends not justifying the means.

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Well then what's the difference between supporting taxes and voting? You say you yourself do not believe voting to be OK in self-defense, so I guess you're not the best person to ask. Your view is one I have no problem with.

But to believe voting is OK in self-defense but supporting taxes never can be doesn't seem to have much consistency.

ALawPoker · #24 08-22-2007, 02:27 PM

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http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2363188212

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Is this an invite? I didn't know I was part of the club. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

EDIT: Nielsio I poked you.

Richard Tanner · #25 08-22-2007, 02:37 PM

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http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2363188212

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Is this an invite? I didn't know I was part of the club. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

EDIT: Nielsio I poked you.

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Suppress any belief you have in human nature and the real world (not to mention be taken in by 9/11 conspiracies) and then hit "Join group".

Also, don't poke Niels, it's like rattling the cage.

Cody

ALawPoker · #26 08-22-2007, 03:18 PM

First he will fire a shot in the air.

If I don't stop, then it's a shot to my leg.

If I still don't stop, he will block my account.

Nielsio · #27 08-23-2007, 03:32 PM

Some more on the mindset of a voluntaryist..:

Saying NO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8N2hmoS4Os

What NOW?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gmYXmlYoX0

clowntable · #28 08-23-2007, 06:51 PM

No offense but that "What now" video is endless rambling + horrible quality. It's like a bad guru smirking and grinning. Spooky and freaky.
Oh and the content is also pretty funny if you take into account the the ACists are the ones that are preaching all the time.
On a certain level this is excellent humor :P

Nielsio · #29 08-23-2007, 07:19 PM

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No offense but that "What now" video is endless rambling + horrible quality. It's like a bad guru smirking and grinning. Spooky and freaky.
Oh and the content is also pretty funny if you take into account the the ACists are the ones that are preaching all the time.
On a certain level this is excellent humor :P

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If I can't help you see the non-controlling ways, then maybe this guy can:

Control and Freedom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKxKGFw6B68
http://www.bswa.org/audio/mp3/Brahma...2007_01_05.mp3

pokerbobo · #30 08-24-2007, 01:32 AM

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Yep.

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Why don't more people get this?

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Because they have grown up in a society where the complete opposite is believed AND TAUGHT!

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But so was I, so was Boro, so were the rest of ACers. It goes beyond that. ( I may not even be a true ACer as I have read nothing on it but Boro posts and similar. I do know my own personel philosophy was very close to it, before I had ever heard the term AC.)

Maybe we (ACers) are wired different to not just agree with something because it was taught to us. I was raised a Catholic, went to church every week, and even as a child I wondered "If god created the earth then who created god?" Is there a god above god and if there is, doesnt that god need a creator too?

Around age 7, I thought it just seemed too far fetched that Santa could visit every house on earth in one nite, even with the time zones and the fact that he only went to Christian homes.

I really think that at least 60% of America is just apathetic about aquiring knowledge. Critical thinking is not the strong suit of any populace. Most people have no desire to use thier minds, to integrate thoughts, to think a theory thru to the end. It is part laziness, and part disinterest, and for many, just a general lack of brains.

I dont want to go on much more.... but as I said in my earlier post, I'm really interested in other's thoughts on why this doesn't make sense to sooooo many people. I realize indoctrination starts people on the path, but it seemed so easy for me as a "moldable mind" as a child, to see thru the garbage and abandon that path.
It's also one of the reasons I left college. Where were you Borodog when I needed you? I would have sat thru all my other classes and hated them, just to stay enrolled and listen to lectures by you. (I would have coasted to an A in your class too.)