80NL - gettin MINdonked into all 3 streets?? - Page 3

Khumalo · #21 09-13-2007, 08:41 PM

My action on each street versus villain:
Flop: Raise pot.
Turn: Raise pot.
River: Shove.

I don't care what his calling range on the river is. I am wired at this point to loathe serial min-donkers, and a guy brilliant or lucky enough use such a line against me on three streets with an overpair killer deserves to double through. I'll even send him flowers if he supplies an address.

By the way, this means I've tried this before and been called with Q7o type stuff. Multiple times! LOLZ.

BevillTheDevil · #22 09-14-2007, 06:15 PM

*this is from a PM to kasane...

well i almost time banked it. I wanted to just call but then I talked myself into "well im losing value from Qx" figured any raise was goin to be a large amount so i just pushed, villian calls w/ 67 for the nut straight. My line screamed monster until the river which didnt really matter cause this type of villian has no idea. But even tho villian sucks, afterwards i thought...given the action and all there arent many hands that are goin to call a shove 200BB deep that i beat!!(and a value bet is going to be huge). I shouldve known this b/c most of my experience comes from deep stack poker until recently. Gettin in 200BB deep in most cases (but obv not all) w/ 1 pair, like this hand, you are almost never ahead. Kinda weird cause if he doesnt make the donk bet i see myself value bettin like 1/2 PSB but if he pushs im pretty much NEVER ahead. After talkn to Kaz about it i realized the pot is so big by the river and given the stack sizes a check behind is good (callin in this case).

traz · #23 09-14-2007, 06:17 PM

Pushing is vastly different from raising to 45

ama0330 · #24 09-14-2007, 06:18 PM

gg villain! xpert turn play!

mackthefork · #25 09-14-2007, 06:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
villain's range is absolutely anything, I raise for value against this guy all day

[/ QUOTE ]

I see FD a lot here, could have made 2 pairs but I might raise river too.

Like this hand, obv I seen the results now, but i see this bet low call big pattern a lot with erm gentleman callers drawing.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG ($49.75)
MP ($26.05)
Hero ($49.25)
SB ($49.20)
BB ($52.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP posts a blind of $0.75.
1 fold, MP (poster) checks, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: ($2) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets $3, MP folds, Hero raises to $18, BB calls $15.

Turn: ($38) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $30.75 (All-In), BB calls $30.75.

River: ($99.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $99.50

Results in white below: 
BB has 4s Qs (flush, king high).
Hero has 8c Kc (two pair, kings and eights).
Outcome: BB wins $99.50. 

Regards Mack

BevillTheDevil · #26 09-14-2007, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing is vastly different from raising to 45

[/ QUOTE ]

so you like a 1/2ish PSB and fold to a shove?? cause if villian shoves now i think there is no way we are ahead. I dunno we have less than PSB left and even a river value bet is goin to be rather large and given that action i dunno if many 1 pair hands are callin. 100BB deep insta gettin AI tho.

shoxbb6 · #27 09-14-2007, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Gettin in 200BB deep in most cases (but obv not all) w/ 1 pair, like this hand, you are almost never ahead

[/ QUOTE ]
You should never be thinking in terms of your hand value and then assign a pot size that each hand is worth. The only thing that should enter your mind on this river is your hand versus villains hand range/calling range and if you are ahead of that range, you need to bet 100% of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
But even tho villian sucks, afterwards i thought...given the action and all there arent many hands that are goin to call a shove 200BB deep that i beat!!(

[/ QUOTE ]You say villain sucks, but you aren't sure there are many worse hands he'll call with? There are plenty, the fact that he has called big bets on 2 streets means he at least likes his hand or is attached to it someway. Also, 200bb is nothing in this game, it's the max buy-in so treat it as such, same as 100bb in a 50nl game.

[ QUOTE ]
Kinda weird cause if he doesnt make the donk bet i see myself value bettin like 1/2 PSB but if he pushs im pretty much NEVER ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]Donk bets are meaningless, and you should treat them as checks. Even if you look at the results and know he's capable of donking the previous streets with something like 67 then he is just as capable of donking with spades or a bare Q.

BevillTheDevil · #28 09-14-2007, 06:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I see FD a lot here, could have made 2 pairs but I might raise river too.

Like this hand, obv I seen the results now, but i see this bet low call big pattern a lot with erm gentleman callers drawing.

[/ QUOTE ]

In your example villian bets larger than pot on flop and gets it AI on the turn...completely different.

My hand guy donks/calls flop and turn which IMO screams some type of draw. And certainly villian isnt callin a river raise on a missed draw.

mackthefork · #29 09-14-2007, 06:39 PM

Yeah I agree, if you think he's smart enough to do the folding thing with FD that made a poor one pair hand, then it's a call, but a lot of them will call with those hands.

Mack

BevillTheDevil · #30 09-14-2007, 06:42 PM

shox It sounds like you are sayin the stack sizes shouldnt even be takin into consideration?? good players shouldnt think of spots as "money" but unfortunately your opponents do and are less likely to call here IMO w/ a 1 pair b/c of how expensive it is...and you say 200BB is nothing in this game?? I have to totally disagree, its completely different than the typical 100BB NL. Ive played over 120k (yes not a whole lot) hands at deep stack poker and it plays soo much different than 100BB NL.