I'm thinking of instituting a new tipping policy

[jjshabado]

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Snow - keep your opinions about tipping culture to yourself, thats the #1 reason why tipping threads used to be auto-locked around here. if this thread becomes a soap box it will get locked as well. This isnt the politics forum, we dont give as much leeway [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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If you're gonna talk to me like that, don't expect to receive a tip.

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I'm glad your not a Mohel!

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BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

A joke like that deserves a good boo. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jjshabado]

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Currently I pretty much tip $1/hand unless the dealer has done something that down to display a horrible attitude or sense of entitlement. Obviously I skip blind steals whatever. Anyway, I play mostly at the Wynn and I'm thinking of identifying maybe 4-5 dealers who are condescending or obnoxious or generally discourteous and stiffing them all the time. Consequently I'll pick 4-5 dealers I think are very good and tip them $2/hand.

I end up tipping the same amount but a more meritocratic matter as opposed to the current socialistic system.

Please comment, and when you do please identify for yourself as a dealer or a player.

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I'm a player. A random thought here:

I think your change might actually be more noticeable to the dealers if you got a stack of half-dollars, and tipped some dealers $0.50 and others $1.50. Unless you're such a regular that the dealers will compare notes about your tipping habits, tipping not at all or tipping $2 might make each dealer just think that you are cheap/generous, and not that you are commenting on their performance. The half dollars would make them take notice of you.

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In MY ideal world everyone would adjust their tips to reward good dealing/not-reward bad dealing. Then it would soon become obvious that some dealers make a lot more money then other dealers. Hopefully, it would become obvious that the professional, competent, great dealers make a lot more. Then crappy dealers would say to themselves, "What does Joe "Great Dealer" Smith do that I don't?". So then dealers would notice if they're getting stiffed a lot.

I realize that this will never happen. I realize its idealistic and impossible to achieve in real life, but its the reason I tip the way I do. I believe good service should get extra rewards. Typical service should get the typical reward, and bad service shouldn't get rewarded. So even if a bad dealer thinks I'm just cheap and doesn't realize why he didn't get tipped, I feel better.

Now what you consider typical service, and what you consider a typical reward is clearly a matter of personal preference. As are the variance between good/bad.

[pocket300]

I can answer this from both sides of the fence since i started as a player and then started dealing in underground clubs.

Player persepective - I feel as if the dealers are performing a service for us as players. Should our tips be based on the quality of service that the dealers provide to us, yes and no. If a dealer is fast and precise they are going to get out more hands to players and in turn recieve more tips as opposed to a dealer who is slower when pitching cards, figuring out side pots, etc. As a player, if a dealer is constantly exposing cards, being mundanely slow, and making the game seem boring, i wont stiff the dealer, but you will not see me tip more than 1$ on any pot. If a dealer is fast, getting out hands, extremely friendly, has complete control over his/her table, ill most likely tip 2-3$ on any decent sized pot, and red birds will be going down on any bigger pots. Also, if a dealer seems ungrateful for a 1$ tip when the pot was decent size, then that dealer will receieve 1$ tips forever. Sometimes when I am losing Ill only tip 1$ no matter what, some dealers dont understand that. I will always tip at least 1$ unless i just steal blinds because yes, the dealers are still performing a service for the players, and they live off the tips, same could be said for waiters/waitresses. If a waiter is slow and not giving or my party the attention i feel is deserved, the tip will reflect that.

As a dealer - I pride myself on taking time to learn the games, the procedures, and techniques. I am always grateful for a tip no matter what the size of the tip is. Whether it be 1$ or 5$, the money is still going in my pocket at the end of the night. Knowing what it takes to keep a table upbeat and moving, i am friendly and energenic. I find that keeping a table upbeat keeps the players in a good mood, and generally the tips are better. If i get stiffed, life goes on, although its not a good feeling when you ship someone a 5-600$ pot (i deal mainly 1/2 and 2/5 NL games) and the player doesnt throw anything back to you. Although I am upset, I dont let this affect my mood or show it to the players. I have regulars in one of the clubs I work in that will tip me even if they steal the blinds, and i have regulars who will ship me a red bird on only a 100$ pot. But then I have the guys who will stiff me on a 300$ pot. It happens though, and I am used to it.

[SA125]

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those who you want to punish won't get it. Those who would get it, already get it.

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Advice - Wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it. Exactly my point.

Many moons ago in HS I was a waiter at weddings. The Maitre'D was given the precharged 15% gratuity by the house and he only shared it with his fulltimers.

Working from 5PM to 3AM on Fri and Sat night in HS, with no tips, made Tues paycheck of net $36 bucks even worse. Min wage about $2.10-$2.35 back then. Giving a buck to a schmuck dealer who doesn't deserve it is something I'm resigned to do.

[jjshabado]

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those who you want to punish won't get it. Those who would get it, already get it.

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Advice - Wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it. Exactly my point.

Many moons ago in HS I was a waiter at weddings. The Maitre'D was given the precharged 15% gratuity by the house and he only shared it with his fulltimers.

Working from 5PM to 3AM on Fri and Sat night in HS, with no tips, made Tues paycheck of net $36 bucks even worse. Min wage about $2.10-$2.35 back then. Giving a buck to a schmuck dealer who doesn't deserve it is something I'm resigned to do.

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It seems like if I couldn't make a decent living off my wage and tips, I'd find a new job. Perhaps that's what crappy dealers need to do.

I don't understand this argument that crappy dealers won't get it, so we tip them anyway. WTF? If they don't get it, they don't get it. I'm not going to give them something they don't deserve just because I don't want to look cheap to the crappy dealer who's too stupid to realize he sucks at his job.

Giving something to someone that doesn't deserve it is something I'll never resign myself to doing (that is where I have a choice, I still have to pay taxes regardless of the idiot that controls the money. Anyway...)

I'm trying to refrain from posting in these threads because I approach this from a very ideological position which leads to lots of arguments that TT doesn't like. As you can see I'm not having much luck...

By the way, when I'm talking about "crappy dealers" I'm talking about the like bottom 5% who really truly suck or are completely indifferent to their job.

[pfapfap]

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those who you want to punish won't get it. Those who would get it, already get it.

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Advice - Wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it. Exactly my point.

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I don't understand this argument that crappy dealers won't get it, so we tip them anyway. WTF?

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Some may be saying that, but I believe the above is aimed at those with poor viewpoints about tipping.

[pfapfap]

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In MY ideal world everyone would adjust their tips to reward good dealing

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Really? In my ideal world, there are plenty of people at the table who tip the dealer for giving them good hands. Dealers are magic. Lucky seat! But it was soooted!

[SNOWBALL]

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It seems like if I couldn't make a decent living off my wage and tips, I'd find a new job. Perhaps that's what crappy dealers need to do.


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People forget that for every crappy dealer that exists, there's another guy out there more qualified (or with the potential at least) who hasn't been hired yet.

[jjshabado]

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those who you want to punish won't get it. Those who would get it, already get it.

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Advice - Wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it. Exactly my point.

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I don't understand this argument that crappy dealers won't get it, so we tip them anyway. WTF?

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Some may be saying that, but I believe the above is aimed at those with poor viewpoints about tipping.

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I don't understand. Poor viewpoints how?

[jjshabado]

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In MY ideal world everyone would adjust their tips to reward good dealing

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Really? In my ideal world, there are plenty of people at the table who tip the dealer for giving them good hands. Dealers are magic. Lucky seat! But it was soooted!

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And this is relevant, how?

Edit: This and my previous post might seem like I'm giving you attitude. I'm not. I honestly didn't get your point in the above quoted post, and I don't think this quoted sentence is relevant to the discussion (as my paragraph was of course). I generally want to keep this discussion civil, and think the principles behind tipping are interesting to discuss. Of course this also leads into the sort of things that get threads locked..