free will and god poll

[thylacine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But it is completely irrational for theists to believe free will exists.


[/ QUOTE ]

are you sure? elaborate.
i don't follow- since, intuitively, the opposite seems true

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty simple really. In a universe with an omnipotent omniscient god, no other being can possibly have free will. This is completely obvious and I won't elaborate further.

There are a lot of things, such as morality, free will, purpose meaning, values, which are purely nonsensical in a universe with an omnipotent omniscient god. Atheists can legitimately claim these issues as there own.

Atheists should not let religious propaganda trick them into believing that they are supposed to believe what religious propaganda says atheists are supposed to believe.

[willie24]

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty simple really. In a universe with an omnipotent omniscient god, no other being can possibly have free will. This is completely obvious and I won't elaborate further.

[/ QUOTE ]

it is equally obvious that free will can't exist when there is no God.

if i claim that God exists, and that the "world" is just an arena for some kind of "will competition" between souls...what logic do you use to prove there can be no freewill? i would think the same logic could be used to prove there is no freewill in the absence of God.

[thylacine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But it is completely irrational for theists to believe free will exists.


[/ QUOTE ]

are you sure? elaborate.
i don't follow- since, intuitively, the opposite seems true

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty simple really. In a universe with an omnipotent omniscient god, no other being can possibly have free will. This is completely obvious and I won't elaborate further.

There are a lot of things, such as morality, free will, purpose meaning, values, which are purely nonsensical in a universe with an omnipotent omniscient god. Atheists can legitimately claim these issues as there own.

Atheists should not let religious propaganda trick them into believing that they are supposed to believe what religious propaganda says atheists are supposed to believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

it is equally obvious that free will can't exist when there is no God.

if i claim that God exists, and that the "world" is just an arena for some kind of "will competition" between souls...what logic do you use to prove there can be no freewill? i would think the same logic could be used to prove there is no freewill in the absence of God.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you believe that, then you are obviously deeply influenced by religious propaganda, which is exactly the point I was making.

[soon2bepro]

quick vote gone wrong.I mistakenly voted I believe in free will. I DON'T believe in free will. Geez

LOL

In fact, I would go as far as to say free will is an impossibility. That is, with logical grounds, I believe free will doesn't exist (which is not the same as not believing it exists). This is something I can't say about God, even though I would call myself an atheist.

[furyshade]

[ QUOTE ]
quick vote gone wrong.I mistakenly voted I believe in free will. I DON'T believe in free will. Geez

LOL

In fact, I would go as far as to say free will is an impossibility. That is, with logical grounds, I believe free will doesn't exist (which is not the same as not believing it exists). This is something I can't say about God, even though I would call myself an atheist.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh...you just bascially said "i have a good argument that free will doesn't exist" then you don't make any sort of argument

[soon2bepro]

[ QUOTE ]
uh...you just bascially said "i have a good argument that free will doesn't exist" then you don't make any sort of argument

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just stating an opinion.

In every free will thread I become involved with, I explain this argument to people. Those who are both able to understand it and withstand it's implications, usually had thought it out by themselves before. As about the others, it's pointless. So I think I'm gonna take a stand here and not give the argument yet again. You can search these forums for any of the other hundreds of free will threads. If it wasn't me who explained this argument in the particular thread you encounter, there was probably someone else.




EDIT: Oh, ok, I can't stand not giving any sort of argument, so here's a quicky one, if you want a more in-deph argument do as I said earlier.

The canonical idea of Free Will is that humans have the freedom to make decisions that are unaffected by the physical rules of this universe, and/or by any interfering factors.

I contest that from what we know of our universe, and what we know about human beings and their consciousness, this is impossible. It may still be true, since we don't know everything (and hence nothing is 100% certain), but the odds against it are infinitely larger than the odds against the existence of a personal God (which are pretty huge already).

[MaxWeiss]

Can I believe in individual free will while also believing in psychohistory and the probability of the masses---that is, no free will over large samples and time periods??

[tame_deuces]

[ QUOTE ]
Can I believe in individual free will while also believing in psychohistory and the probability of the masses---that is, no free will over large samples and time periods??

[/ QUOTE ]

Some forms of it yes:

Swarm intelligence

[tame_deuces]

Or to state it a little further. The net result of a mass of free agents may be predictable to a very large degree (in some manners of measurement) even if the behavior of the individual agent is far less predictable.

[MaxWeiss]

[ QUOTE ]
Or to state it a little further. The net result of a mass of free agents may be predictable to a very large degree (in some manners of measurement) even if the behavior of the individual agent is far less predictable.



[/ QUOTE ]

That's basically exactly what I meant.