First time in 2007? 1/2NL

[tubasteve]

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i don't think that attitude will take you too far in poker, but if the player is happy just playing the lower levels for ever then yeah i guess

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if you backed that up with an argument i might be able to agree, but so far i think what i said makes a lot of sense. if i can spend my 30 minutes to an hour a day posting about common situations i struggle with instead of inane crap like folding KK preflop when our read sucks, im going to be a better player for it in the long run.

edit: in other words, learning how to learn makes your development that much faster, and that inclues learning what is a leak and what isnt.

[corsakh]

Errr.. Some people obviously play too high for their own good.
ps Sorry, but "if utg came over the top i could find a fold" is gem.
pss If 16/9 and 18/10 are "nits".. whatever.

[Unknown Soldier]

the arguments simple. You're advocating a blanket statement. Sure, this one is usually right, but a blanket statement is a blanket statement. You are no longer "playing poker" in this spot, you are just blindly doing something. It's a bad habit and could well spread to other areas of your game.

[scallop]

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its too close for us to even be able to tell if it is a mistake, so we err on the side of not folding when we only lose to 1 hand. thats how i see it

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yeah im not folding here (although it's pretty damn marginal), i wasn't really talking about the hand, just what you guys were discussing.

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i think part of being a good player is focusing your learning efforts where they are most needed. i dunno about you but i dont have unlimited time to spend learning the game, so you have to be able to identify what is truly a leak vs what is just a [censored] situation that comes up every 25k hands.

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This is sick good advice dude....

Choose one: Learn when to fold KK pre flop or how to play JJ as an overpair on the flop.

Seriously tho KK preflop is such an irrelevant question when headsup

[Unknown Soldier]

[ QUOTE ]
Errr.. Some people obviously play too high for their own good.
ps Sorry, but "if utg came over the top i could find a fold" is gem.
pss If 16/9 and 18/10 are "nits".. whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

if utg comes over the top it is a fold.

[tubasteve]

[ QUOTE ]
the arguments simple. You're advocating a blanket statement. Sure, this one is usually right, but a blanket statement is a blanket statement. You are no longer "playing poker" in this spot, you are just blindly doing something. It's a bad habit and could well spread to other areas of your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

im advocating a blanket statement because for once, this one is almost always correct without a super specific read. im not blindly doing anything, i explicitly explained why folding KK preflop is almost always bad, didnt i?

[tubasteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Errr.. Some people obviously play too high for their own good.
ps Sorry, but "if utg came over the top i could find a fold" is gem.
pss If 16/9 and 18/10 are "nits".. whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

if utg comes over the top it is a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

[Unknown Soldier]

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It's a bad habit and could well spread to other areas of your game.


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you clearly are blindly doing something. you see KK, you get it in for < x bbs regardless of the action.




wait, so you are folding KK pf now?

[duh]

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equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 58.374% 53.60% 04.77% 57821754 5149089.00 { KK+, QcQs, QdQs, QhQs, AcKc }
Hand 1: 41.626% 36.85% 04.77% 39755220 5149089.00 { KK }

[/ QUOTE ]

For the second villan, that range is wayyyyy to wide.
This type of player would never ever 4bet AK, let alone felt it. Same goes for QQ to a lesser degree.

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you understand that i gave him just one of the 16 possible combos of either AKs or AKo, and only 3 of the 6 QQ possibilities, right? his PFR is 7, thats a range equal to something like this:

88+,ATs+,KJs+,AQo+

or probably something similar but weighted maybe more towards small pairs than stuff like KJs.


if his 3-bet % is as little as 2% thats this range:

QQ+,AKs,AKo


so you cant tell me my original range is too wide for a 20/7.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, this is a 4bet.
Though I might agree on the 3 betting range, his 50BB 4 betting range does not include any unpaired hands, and almost certianlnly not QQ.

Also this player is a 27/7/1. He is a nut miner.
This type of player's MO is to not put any big bets or rasies in without the 1st or 2nd nuts.

These players are risk adverse. They stay far away from coinflips, regardless of metagame

[tubasteve]

if theres a cold 5-bet in front of me thats a lot different than this situation IMO