Hand from the WSOP 2500nl (not mine) but interesting I think.

utg+1 is pushing like 100% of the time. what else do u think hes going to do?

[NoahSD]

Yeah.. I still agree with dave on this. Things are so perfect for this play.

Edit: Keep in mind that we don't lose much if we try this play and shorty doesn't push.

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
utg+1 is pushing like 100% of the time. what else do u think hes going to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Be a donk and fold because he was trying to steal cheap, or decide that a hand good enough to "trap" no longer is with two calls, a trappy reraise, and a cold call of that?
It's possible, you know. I wasn't cognizant enough of his stack size the first time I wrote, but I've still seen worse play.

[adanthar]

If he folds to a small raise, he was folding to a push. He's not the guy that matters - we're just trying to decide whether we want 1+ of the callers in or not. (BTW, if we reraise and he shoves, there's some chance either UTG+3/CO shove in front of us, too.)

I would, so I would at least think about not pushing, but with these exact stacks sizing the raise gets complicated and you can't ask him for a count because it gets too obvious...I don't know, this is tricky.

i dont think everybody will catch on to us just b/c we ask for a chip count..ppl ask for counts all the time. some ask for counts w/ every person theyre in a hand w/. and if all he has is 850 pf, we should already know how much it is just by looking at his stack

[curtains]

Cmon just go allin, what the heck is everyone talking about here?

[tubasteve]

[ QUOTE ]

Cmon just go allin, what the heck is everyone talking about here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maximizing EV [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Dhani]

Horrible luck. you made the decision to push larger stacks out or make them gamble. You got what you wanted and were unlucky.

[HighStakesPro]

Okay obviously you can all in before the flop but if you want to be really manipulative of the other players, you have a unique opportunity because of the UTG+1 shortstack.

You can reraise preflop to 525. Now when the action gets back to UTG, he'll go all in for his last 325, which will be exactly a minimum raise, then of course the other two players will call (unless they can see what's going on), and then POW you move all in for your last 850 and they're forced to call unless they are so disgusted about how you manipulated them and fold. So now you've successfully built a bigger pot, and even if they dont call you got a few more chips from them. If you want to make it less likely for the UTG+3 and cutoff to know what you're doing, you can raise to 500, should accomplish the same result but since its a round number they might be less likely to realize that you are baiting them into the pot.

[HighStakesPro]

Okay I posted that before reading the replies so looks like everyone thought of that idea before me lol. Anyway here's one thing that makes me want to do this play more than anything else: ITS FUN! You screw with the other players at the table by using the short stack to take them for a big ride for all your chips and give them false pot odds to call each time, forcing them to slowly call all the raises with weak hands, until you get all your chips in, or until they give up in frustration and leave all that dead money in the pot. When you have so few chips you have to try and win big pots when you have rare situations like this. Plus if you win the hand, or even just win the side pot if there is one, it might put the UTG+3, cutoff, and BB on tilt cause you screwed them over to some extent. So they will be pissed off and you can brag about it. Also they'll know you're a tricky player and be less likely to try and put a move on you or something, which is what you want. This kind of ploy is part of the intrinsic value in playing tournaments :-)