Dissatisfied with # of 3rd place finishes.

[DeuceSeven]

I don't advocate telling underage ppl to gamble, but the only way to get better at sngs is to play real money. You can't learn much from play money. My guess is you'll play it for awhile and get bored like I did and deposit some money, that's how I got started. I wouldn't worry about where you place and all your other statistics since it doesn't apply to real money.

[Tappy Tibbons]

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I've dled a pirated version of SNGWIZ

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Guess you're not above stealing then....go get that credit card.

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Look for his next post "OMG Someone Hacked My Account - $15000PM stolen - you suck FTPDoug"

[BadBeatsCrewDerk]

Ohhhhhhhhh play money. Whew.

You can reg and sit out at the 250 playmoney SNGs and you will make a profit. No joke... I often reg for play money SNGs when testing out new table configurations, mods, etc. I usually just close them out in the first or second level after I'm done and then I notice my playmoney account has gone up.

[BradleyT]

OP you should try and emulate that one 15 year old girl. She was 15 when she started playing play in tons of freerolls that paid small amounts and now is making good bank at real money. I can't remember her name...but she's ugly lol.

[cougar62]

The biggest problem you'll have trying to learn SNG strategy in PM tourneys is that there is no fold equity on the bubble, people don't care because nothing's at risk, so you'll never learn proper bubble play which is essential to winning in real money games.

That said trying to be the best at the PM games is fine, and you'll learn other poker skills along the way. Good too that you're practicing learning how to manage a bankroll.

Still bugs me that you pirated SNGWiz, it's not like it's put out by Microsoft, it's just a guy who worked his ass off I'd imagine developing it, and puts in a lot of time supporting it through patches, his site and even occaisionally coming in here to clarify questions about ICM and his product. But getting off the soapbox, I don't think it will help you much in PM SNG's because of the lack of fold equity on the bubble.

[TheFishhh]

DevinLake - Well, I'm pretty serious about learning the game the correct way. & I've been lurking the forums for a couple weeks now, & I felt what better way to get advice & what-not than to post a thread explaining my situation. If I had realized that PM threads are looked down upon, I more than likely would've stuck to lurking & reading more threads rather than posting my own, but since I did not.. this is what surmounted. Now, as far as reading & improving, are there any notable 2+2 users that are "professional" SnG players that I can look up & read their posts? I'm a little under half way through DavSimon's SnG strategy thread on flopturnriver.com, & I've read Moneymaker's SnG strategy article, as well as misc. articles on tightpoker.com, but I still want more to read so I have more to commit to memory (even though most of the stuff said is just repeated; the repetition will serve as an aid to further help commit what I read to memory). & I hope once I get into real money games, I am able to excel. But, until then, I will slowly work up my PM bankroll & commit myself to learning the fundamentals & attempting to apply them to PM games where applicable.

DeuceSeven - I'm thinking that instead of depositing money out of my pocket, I could start hitting up freerolls. Before I realized the important of bankroll management, I had made it in the money in a Full Tilt freeroll & made about $4. I then went on to losing it all in a matter of a few hours. So, that option is always open.

Tappy Tibbons - I'm not too worried about losing PM. If someone's that bored to hack a PM account, so be it. All I'm worried about is improving my game. So, that's that..

BadBeatsCrewDerk - I realize that you can sit & end up in the money. But, I hardly ever sit the entire SnG. Like I said in my inital post, I play tight until the 4th or 5th level, then I begin to loosen up & steal blinds; which works sometimes, but I understand I cannot compare PM games to RM games. I've got to start somewhere, right?

BradleyT - Like I said to DueceSeven, freerolls are always an option. Depending on when I can register for some, I may begin getting into them later tonight. We'll see.

cougar62 - Well, I guess that I will have more success in reading about proper bubble play than in actually applying it to my PM games. & I think that's a realistic goal: Being able to take down PM games religiously. & I've realized the importance of bankroll management since I learned what the term meant. & if it bugs you that I pirated SNGWiz, I can delete it. I realize now that pirating it is pretty wrong (the Microsoft bit is what got me), plus "the lack of fold equity on the bubble" is another reason I will delete it, since it will be unable to help me out otherwise.

[flopton]

it may help with discipline to start with play money games, if you can take the game seriously and try to work on playing a good game against the craziness that goes on there you will be able to do the same at the $1 or $2 level. i always wonder though when i hear about friends etc that play that whether you're learning a 'wrong' way to play because in real life people care about losing money. however seeing people frequently go in on the first hand with nothing at the $11 and $22 games im not too sure...

[BadBeatsCrewDerk]

Well I am not advocating that you sit at the 250's and sit out to make play money, just saying that there is a big difference. I think most losing real money SNG players would crush the play money SNGs if they played the same way.

You will learn if you play the play money SNGs, but there is a world of difference between playing them and real money, so you may also hurt yourself a bit as well. High buyin play money SNGs may be better because people have to want to accumulate the play money chips in order to play in them, thus there is more value and people will play better.

Not to encourage underage gambling, but you'd learn a lot faster playing at the lowest buyin available.

[Kevin8423]

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I've read Moneymaker's SnG strategy article

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I've never read this so I could be way off, but he isn't someone I would rely on for solid SNG advice.

[TheFishhh]

flopton - I assure you, I treat my PM games as if I were playing with real money. If I didn't, then I wouldn't practice good bankroll management, & I'd be buying in the $10,000 SnGs as soon as my bankroll reached that mark. Instead, I've been building it up from $1,000. Thus far, I've grinded out the 5/10 NLHE until my bankroll was $5,000 - $7,000 (I started on the 19th & was able to get it up to this point on the 21st). From the 19th 'till today, I've been playing in the $250 PM SnGs. As it stands, I'm $22,570 - $42,570 away from being able to play the $2,000 SnGs. But, if I continue to to make what I've averaged in 6 days (~$2,738/day), I should be able to give 'em a go in 8 - 15 days. & I fear what you fear - that I'm learning the wrong way to play. I wish I had some type of mentor to watch over me as I play, or someone who I can regularly talk to who can show me the ropes; I think I'd be able to benefit a lot more if that were the case. Regardless, I will continue my solo effort to improve through what I read.