Semi-bluff vs. Very Aggressive Villian

[Tryptamean]

a rough number does matter and I think you are crushed way too often. People just don't make plays like this with air and there are not many draws that he could be semibluffing with. He can't think he has much fold equity given the preflop action either.

Also remember that its going to cost 2.5BBs to get to showdown. So you're only getting like 2.5:8.5 on a calldown. Also, if you do decide to calldown you pretty much have to fold this river because all of his straight draws pulled ahead of you.

[Oink]

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a) Definately nice but it's not required for the play to be attempted. And I agree it's not applicable here.


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No its not. But unless villain either folds a better hand or c/f's river with his worse hands, then raising does absolutely nothing for you unless the pot is rather big or you can make him fold a ten outer.

In this spot it doesnt matter whether you fold a 6 outer if he fires the river with it. The value is about the same. So if you are not folding a better hand then the raise is meaningless


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c) Unless I am misunderstanding you that would be a reason NOT to FSD raise. We don't raise villian 3betting hands worse than ours because of d).

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ya that was put wrong. You knew what I meant I guess.

I agree that few villains will 3-bet a draw here. But it doesnt has to happen very often to mitigate the value of a FSD raise. When hero raises and villain 3-bets the pot is bloatet rather big. Even tho he might just 3-bet a worse hand with 5% prob it really mitigates the value of your fsd raise.

BTW after stox book you see quite a few TAG and LAGTAGs who 3-bets draws on the turn. I have to admit that nothing gives me greater pleasure when I 3-bet a draw OOP and win a 9BB pot. (Apart from sex that is)

[Niediam]

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a rough number does matter and I think you are crushed way too often. People just don't make plays like this with air

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I think you forget to look at OP's read on villian. Against an unknown I'm definately folding the flop.

[Tryptamean]

YEah I saw the read and even if he's more likely to have air than an unknown, I'm still going to pick a better spot to look him up

[BrassMonkey]

Thanks for the comments, guys. This hand wasn't standard operating procedure for me by any means. Usually I'd just bet/fold the flop. However, my read of the villian in question led me to believe that strong representation of an ace on the turn might make him fold either a better hand or a hand that was drawing to beat me. I guess I didn't expect QUITE such a strong negative response to the play, and was hoping that discussion would focus more on the river decision, since the spade draw that I might have been representing came in, and his turn call meant that a river bet, in position, might be warranted to represent possible additional strength. The villian in this hand actually tanked for quite some time on the turn, and finally called. I prayed for a fold, but no dice. On the river, I really think that he would have folded his pair of fives if I had bet, but I missed the chance to win the pot by just checking behind.

Anyway, sometimes I feel like my somewhat ABC style post-flop gets run over by aggressive players, and I'm trying to find more spots in which to play back at them. I guess this one wasn't the best. Junk almost worked, though...

[Oink]

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Anyway, sometimes I feel like my somewhat ABC style post-flop gets run over by aggressive players, and I'm trying to find more spots in which to play back at them.

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Dont play back with marginal hands. This line you took would be fine with an A and then you could vb the river.

With marginal hands you need to call more if they take a lot of shots.

In this particular hand you are turning a marginal holding into a bluff. Thats not how you counter an aggro strategy by villain. If you had gotten him to fold on the turn, he was folding a hand you didnt really mind continued in the hand - like a 6 outer or so.