16: Bubble SnG standard right?

[DeuceSeven]

I think either one is fine. Kevin I think you're fogetting that some of the time villain, maybe not a big stacked villain like this flops 2nd pair on a KJx board and folds. I don't think one is better then the other, given different circumstances (stack size, hand, villains stack size) that one or the other is truly a better option.

[johnnyknish]

i would rather take down the pot after the flop with no contest instead of racing for the extra thousand to be honest..besides he might still call and race for that extra thousand with us having better odds at that point anyways

[loxxii]

i'd rather have him whiff with overs and fold than see the last 2 cards.

perserving life on the bubble is more important than doubling off this guy.

[Finnisher]

[ QUOTE ]
Read my post if you think SnG is right. Why would you not want QJ to see all 5 cards for 1000 extra?? You are getting called either way if they hit on the flop so they are really only seeing 2 cards extra.

[/ QUOTE ]
Read my post and pls comment [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[geo8o2]

shove preflop. 1000 extra chips is very important. always play for 1st.

[sence25]

I like a shove pf way more than a sng.
kevin already stated why.

[BruceN]

Villain has in my view a dominating stack. He will be feeling pretty safe at the moment and maybe looking to steal some cheap pots with little bubble resistance, and perhaps bully a bit.

Whilst the sng may be slightly optimal in isolation, Im shoving to make a statement that I will protect my blind. If it discourages Big stack from stealing too cheaply its worth it in my view.

[Rupert]

I _much_ prefer a preflop shove here for reasons outlined by Uniqueuponhim

[Finnisher]

Unknown villain is going to have 2 cards>T more often than at least one<T. We want him to fold overcards but he probably won't fold them preflop. He might fold them to a SnG. If his range has a lot of undercard hands then we want to shove cos we have a big enough edge often enough that we don't want him to fold. But if his pf range is pairs and overcards it's better for us to have him fold a smaller pp sometimes in exchange of getting overcards to fold sometimes. I think with TT SnG is better, with QQ+ shove is probably better.

Obv if villain will never fold hands we want him to fold (hands with >20% equity) and folds hands we want him to call with then SnG is stupid. But I think people at 16s are at least as willing to call with an underpair as overcards, and they're going to have overs a lot more often than a pp.

[Kevin8423]

First off to whoever said to play for first, that is incorrect. You should play to make the money with the greatest shot at also getting 1st, meaning you don't fold to the money and you also don't go for 1st at all costs. There are always situations where these both could be correct, but not in general.

The reason I don't like a SnG is because its basically only getting a fold when the villain misses the flop with overcards, which is exactly when you want his extra 1000 invested. The 4th stack isn't small enough to not want to risk bubbling if they happen to call to see the extra two cards.

Getting 3:1 to call even most stupid players aren't folding middle pair or maybe even bottom pair to your SnG, I don't expect it to work often when they connect at all, so I'm thinking that I wouldn't every try a SnG in this spot. I might come in for a shove with 99, definitley TT and less than that I think I am just folding pf since you still have 9BBs in your stack and there are other similar or shorter stacks.