Does anyone else really think this is a banable offense for racism?

[bwana devil]

im all in favor of cleaning up the racist junk that gets posted on here. i emailed mat way back when and pushed to get the N word censored here.

what was posted didnt come across as offensive to me. however the thread would most likely escalate into racist comments. in my opinion a ban on OP seems like jumping the gun because the line wasnt crossed. locking it down would seem more appropriate to prevent any real problems. either way, i guess im not losing any sleep over it.

[nath]

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this is a terrible OP and i have no sympathy for the person who got banned.

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[bwana devil]

and another thought, it was a horrible post but it also reminded me of the OOT post a few weeks ago about someone asking what point it is to be bilingual. i skimmed the OOT post and most people ridiculed the OP of that thread but if i recall there were a few points for the OP to consider.

[TxRedMan]

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this is a terrible OP and i have no sympathy for the person who got banned.

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agreed, but reason for banning should have been "sucking at posting".

not to get all PC, but calling it a racism ban waters down what actually is racism.

[mrjetguy]

this is the internetz... people say much worse things on here all the time and it goes unnoticed. People make fun of posters with poor english skills (non-americans I assume) on this forum all the time, I see no difference.

[Poker Clif]

[ QUOTE ]
im all in favor of cleaning up the racist junk that gets posted on here. i emailed mat way back when and pushed to get the N word censored here.

what was posted didnt come across as offensive to me. however the thread would most likely escalate into racist comments. in my opinion a ban on OP seems like jumping the gun because the line wasnt crossed. locking it down would seem more appropriate to prevent any real problems. either way, i guess im not losing any sleep over it.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, full disclosure. I am white. There have been several bi- or multi-racial adoptions in my extended family, which makes us a white/black (Carribean)/Hispanic and (possibly) Native American family.

1. I think that the emphasis in the United State on racism and hate speech is ridiculous.

If I kill someone because they insulted me, because I'm a racist, or just because I felt like it, they are equally dead. Is it more of a crime if a black man calls me "white trash" before he pulls the trigger? I think not.

2. Is a racial insult automatically more harmful than any other kind?

We greatly value free speech in the US, ESPECIALLY when it's political speech. And political speech can certainly involve such touchy questions as citizenship requirements, an official language, or legal immigration quotas.

In the US, there are four freedoms in our constitution: freedom of the press, speech, religion, and association.

Recently someone on here told me that I couldn't be human if I was a Republican, and someone (not me) asked if that should be banned. It was an obnoxious thing to say, but his freedom of speech is equal to mine, and he is free to have his opinion.

Someone is equally free to be a racist in his speech--and those of us who disagree are free to refuse to talk to him,to legally picket/boycott his business (freedom of associaton), and to state their disagreement (freedom of speech).

3. People from many countries read and post on here, making this an even more difficult question. Even among democracies, the differences in attitudes toward speech are considerable. We don't have banned political parties in the US, but Germany and other countries do.

I wouldn't want to me the moderator, and have to decide whether some insults (based on race, religion, political beliefs, or whatever) are automatically worse than others.

And if it's hard to sort this all out now, just wait until a few thousand newly prosperous Chinese are reading and posting on here. How many of our moderators will have a real understanding of that culture?

What it all comes down to is that someone not liking the way a sports announcer reported a score is in no way as direct an insult as questioning my right to my political beliefs, and I don't see how either is a bannable offense. Let's not get so worked up about race that we lose all perspective here.

[kerowo]

I'll take a swing here.

1. You are right, we tend to pay more attention to race in America, probably because we had some issues with it in our past. We already give different punishments for different motives for a crime so adding "hate crime" to the mix isn't the only place it happens. What's the difference between manslaughter and murder 1?

2. I think a case can be made that a racial insult is more harmful than a non-racial insult because it tends to come from a different place. Insulting your shoes doesn't dehumanize an entire group of people making it easier to look the other way when horrible things are done to the group. I don't see it as a free speech issue either, it is akin to the "fire in crowded theater" prohibition.

3. Our house our rules. If someone from another country can't figure out that racial slurs aren't appropriate here after being told by a mod a couple of times and adjust their behavior then removing them from the community isn't out of the question.

The post in question dealt with race but wasn't racist but probably wasn't too far away from it.

[Poker Clif]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll take a swing here.

1. You are right, we tend to pay more attention to race in America, probably because we had some issues with it in our past. We already give different punishments for different motives for a crime so adding "hate crime" to the mix isn't the only place it happens. What's the difference between manslaughter and murder 1?

2. I think a case can be made that a racial insult is more harmful than a non-racial insult because it tends to come from a different place. Insulting your shoes doesn't dehumanize an entire group of people making it easier to look the other way when horrible things are done to the group. I don't see it as a free speech issue either, it is akin to the "fire in crowded theater" prohibition.

3. Our house our rules. If someone from another country can't figure out that racial slurs aren't appropriate here after being told by a mod a couple of times and adjust their behavior then removing them from the community isn't out of the question.

The post in question dealt with race but wasn't racist but probably wasn't too far away from it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your disagreements with me were not without merit. A couple comments:

1. You are right about "our house, our rules".

As one of those evil Republicans, I believe that property and business owners are already too resticted in what they can do with their own stuff. The owner(s) of twoplustwo should have the right to ban whoever they want.

If I get banned, I have the remedies mentioned in my earlier post. I can go to our free press if I feel that there has been mistreatment or discrimnation. I can make posts other places to make my case. I can protest or picket. I could even start my own site.

2. It is questionable whether racism can be considered akin to shouting fire in a crowded theater. The actual quote is that you can't FALSELY yell fire. That is the basis of our libel and slander laws. You can't just say something alarming (or there would never be any reporting on the adventures of Brittney Spears).

It has to be untrue, or at least, there must be negligence in checking your facts. That is why Carol Burnett was able to successfully sue the National Enquirer and win when they reported that she was drunk in public. She is a teetotaler, and that fact was common knowledge among those who knew her well.

3. I'm very uncomfortable with that quote about the broadcaster rising to the level of racism. And even if it does, again, that is often a matter of perception. Certainly many black Americans think that the "the n-word" is OK, at least, when used within certain mostly- or all-black groups. (As a aside, I use "black" becuase it is more accurate than African American. Skin color can have very little to do with race, as a dark-skinned person could be mixed (1/4 Jamaican in my nephew's case) or Cuban, or have various other origins having nothing to do with Africa.)

Again on the racism and perception issue, the comedian Carlos Mencia had a competion that included a watermelon eating contest, because it would favor the black contestant. I was VERY uncomfortable with that entire sketch, even though I know that the intention was to poke fun at racism, not to encourage it.

You're a racist either because you are, or because someone thinks you are. This whole area is VERY subjective, and someone disagreeing with with a broadcaster's word usage, while using the accepted name of the ethnic group, doesn't come anywhere close to bothering me.

[VoraciousReader]

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this is a terrible OP and i have no sympathy for the person who got banned.

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[Dids]

There's "disagreeing with how ESPN presents sports" and there's "complaining because somebody isn't speaking 'normal english' on your tv".

I'm not sure how you think your post could be interpreted as anything other that stupid bigotry.