10k Withdrawals and Government

[Jeter5583]

so does the IRS know exactly how much money every single big online poker player makes? i always thought their jaws dropped in joy when they got the big tax checks from money they didnt know existed...

[sharknut]

I was rather stupid since I hadn't had a large withdrawl recently, but Bodog just sent me $12,500 spread out on 5 consecutive check numbers. Any way to deposit these without raising suspicions?

[Poker_Ace]

The 10k reporting requirement only applies to CASH transactions, not checks, wire transfers, etc. If BoDog sends you a 10k+ check or wire transfer, nothing is reported. As referenced by another poster, the law was designed to catch drug dealers who did all their business in cash.

Because the rule only applies to cash transactions, one cannot be guilty of structuring if one breaks up their non-cash transaction into increments of less than 10k. Basically, one would be attempting to circumvent a reporting requirement that does not exist.

SARs get filed for a variety of reasons, including multiple cash deposits of less than 10k in close proximity. Because there is no reporting requirement relating to checks (other than cashiers checks and other cash equivalents), depositing multiple checks of less than 10k in close proximity should not trigger an SAR.

[sharknut]

What would you define as "close proximity"? Weekly? Every other week? Also, since all checks are dated 1/30...would that raise any flags? Thx again

[Jeter5583]

If what Poker Ace writes is true, it seems to conflict with all the other postings. If it is JUST cash transfers, then this becomes a non-issue to all. So what's the truth?

[Poker_Ace]

Yes,it is true and, yes, it does conflict with the common understanding on the boards and, yes, this is a non-issue which is why I keep posting about it. Unless one is dealing with CASH transactions of more than 10k, one need not worry.

[goodgrief]

The confusion here arises because there are different laws, passed at different times, regarding cash and checks.

Cash, by the way, refers to not just to cash as in greenbacks but also to traveler's checks and certain wire transfers. For awhile after the 1986 act was passed, there was a fad for drug distributors to use traveler's checks. The evil-doers also played with using wire transfers. So the definition of cash is a little broader than intuition suggests.

I actually don't know if ACH deposits are counted as wire transfers. I tend to think not. I thought ACH was more like electronic checks. There is a clear record of where they came from and where they are going already. No need to create a second trail. Perhaps our banker friend can clarify.

In any case, the guy with the several $12,500 checks cannot be laundering cash, since he is merely depositing checks. I hope you already know that all checks over $100 are required to be copied and kept on file at banks since the 1970s. So your checks are open to inspection by DOJ or Dept. of Treasury if you are ever the subject of an investigation. We can thank Nixon for that one. This was the infamous and badly named "Bank Secrecy Act," in which it was established that in U.S. banks, there ain't no such thing as secrecy. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I exaggerate, of course, but perhaps only a little.

You may assume that the government can pull up a history of your deposits and withdrawals by check quite easily by presenting your bank with a subpoena.

Pay your taxes on all earned income. Don't try to earn by illegal activity, and don't associate with those who do. Not as fun as the oft-suggested "hookers and blow" but there it is.

To the man with several $12,500 checks, I say "well done, sir" and be sure to review the rules for estimated payment of tax, as making prompt estimated payments can reduce the amount of your taxes. If you wait until April 2008 to pay the taxes, there MAY be (depending on circumstance) additional penalties.

[ QUOTE ]
If what Poker Ace writes is true, it seems to conflict with all the other postings. If it is JUST cash transfers, then this becomes a non-issue to all. So what's the truth?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Jeter5583]

so issue closed? all initial responses were wrong or not specifying cash only

[punk-in-drublic]

im sorry i was not clear earlier in my first post the poster who mentioned that these reporting requirements are for cash only is entirely correct the purpose of this reporting is to establish some sort of audit trail. With cash there is typically no audit trail, with check deposits or automated clearing house (ACH) deposits there is always an audit trail. However wire transfers are monitored constantly for suspicious activity to ensure that the banks are meeting compliance requirements and are not practicing willfull blindness which in essence is turning a blind eye to possibly suspicious activity. Most large banks have large units dedicated to the monitoring of wire transfer activity which is typically under more intense scrutiny than normal deposit and withdrawal behaviour. This is to look for possible activity which may be suspicious in nature. They do this by computer monitoring of transactions as well as actual human monitoring.

[latefordinner]

besides all the (mis)information in a thread, there is a law that you have to report if you have over 10k total across all foreign bank accounts. this certainly applies to neteller + money in poker sites at any given time, but unclear if anyone has ever had any consequences from not reporting that.