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#21
10-10-2007, 01:52 PM
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Re: floppin top 2 deep
[ QUOTE ]
That's almost worst case scenario range.since we don't have reads on his leads Lets add in some tp types and k10s(different suit) 910s(different suit) maybe j9s or suited aces or in that suit. In a close spot u should lean towards calling.and you made it the the tighest u could with that range and still is still auto call. It funny because any real money poker player will never disagree with what the good ones have said here vs 28vpip wit no reads on his leads or how often he does lead.. Auto raise n call [/ QUOTE ] No way OESD is bet/pushing this deep. I think this is best case scenario range for villain in support of raise/calling: 44,AsKs,AsJs,AsTs,As9s-As5s,As3s,As2s, Ts9s, KsJs, KsTs OP is 47% against this range. Either way it's pretty marginal IMO for the strength of your hand which is why I like flatting the flop better and making your raise/call range sets. 
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#24
10-10-2007, 03:17 PM
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Re: floppin top 2 deep
if uve seen these anxious shoves from aces or kings before then id prob put him on a slowplayed big pair pf and a dumb flop shove and therefore call. Without such a read and considering how deep u r (calling 564 into 250 i think), leaning towards a fold, only hand ud be happy seeing would be something like k-10s or 10-9s both of which ur a coinflip with - if u had reads that he plays draws very aggro in general, easier call, overall though, its a slight ahead/way behind scenario which isnt very attractive this deep. Really close though since sets might not play this fast and combo draws/oefd do. BTW, not raising this flop is retarded, shouldve been more though IMO.
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#26
10-10-2007, 03:24 PM
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Re: floppin top 2 deep
[ QUOTE ]
well, I think folding this hand after raising is more retarded than calling the flop, but that's just me. [/ QUOTE ] u can raise that flop and not always have to call a shove, there r a lot of draws which arent necessarily going to go nuts and shove that deep and giving free cards to 2 ppl on that board is mental
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#28
10-10-2007, 03:27 PM
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Re: floppin top 2 deep
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] well, I think folding this hand after raising is more retarded than calling the flop, but that's just me. [/ QUOTE ] u can raise that flop and not always have to call a shove, there r a lot of draws which arent necessarily going to go nuts and shove that deep and giving free cards to 2 ppl on that board is mental [/ QUOTE ] it's only a free card if they don't bet the turn when they miss... you also let people drawing slim get away from their hands.
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#29
10-10-2007, 03:28 PM
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Re: floppin top 2 deep
[ QUOTE ]
thinking about villain's stats and the fact that sets are less likely be in his range (3 betting queens and jacks pf/not playing so fast), i think its a actually a pretty easy call, sry for flip flopping [/ QUOTE ] against a range that doesn't count jacks and counts all flush draws >A-xs we are 47%. I think JJ and QQ can definitely be in his range when 175bb deep, out of position and against an UTG raiser...
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#30
10-10-2007, 03:30 PM
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Re: floppin top 2 deep
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] well, I think folding this hand after raising is more retarded than calling the flop, but that's just me. [/ QUOTE ] u can raise that flop and not always have to call a shove, there r a lot of draws which arent necessarily going to go nuts and shove that deep and giving free cards to 2 ppl on that board is mental [/ QUOTE ] it's only a free card if they don't bet the turn when they miss... you also let people drawing slim get away from their hands. [/ QUOTE ] i dont c how not charging ppl to draw against u on that board is smart, i dont c what u mean "its only a free card" - y would u give it to them? plus the raise makes even more sense from my perspective as im advocating calling a shove.
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