Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows discussion thread (SPOILERS)

[bobman0330]

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Snape knew how to fly? I missed that too. I knew Voldy learned it. I'm assuming that is some really strong magic that someone learns? Just out of curiousity could someone lead me to where it is? I just skimmed over parts and couldn't find it, I'm guessing it's in the snape chapter but didn't see it.

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When Snape gets run out of the school by the teachers, he flies away. It's in the chapter called the Sacking of the Headmaster or whatever.

[ASPoker8]

Snape jumps out the window and flies (like Voldemort did)

[Needle77]

Thanks guys. Somehow my brain didn't compute that through both times I read it. Interesting that Snape and Voldy were the two that learned that ability.

Won't mind seeing him jump out of a window and just fly away in the movie.

[CallMeIshmael]

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Someone brought up that they did not “buy” the idea of a portkey. That Vold would have had someone “pass” Harry a pair of scissors or something and have him transported to Voldy. I feel that some of you are reading, find something that doesn’t click and then whine about it instead of rereading the book. Harry was at Hogwarts where we find out DD was always keeping out a close eye on him. No one was supposed to know Voldy was back. If Harry magically dies I think that might tip some people off. Also, portkeys have a finite window of time to work. There is a time frame for them, so one could not hand Harry a portkey whenever they felt like it. Pwned.

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Asserting your way to victory is great and all, but your argument fails to establish (or even try to establish) why

1. Harry COMPLETELY dissappearing in a maze / tricking a powerful goblet signifies that Voldy is back less than Harry randomly dying out in the forset, or some other place; people like to point out that he was under DD's protection, but do these same people think Harry vanishing isnt going to be fishy to DD??? REALLY?

2. How on earth the concept that a portkey only works within certain time frames helps the argument that Voldy would hide the port key in a maze, which people can only get to after finding their way through the maze, fighting off enemies and solving puzzles, all of which could take a widely varying amount of time, as opposed to having it be in moody's office, and just use the "Harry follow me to my office, its important" technique, that would narrow down the time frame for use WAY WAY WAY better

[Jazzy3113]

OK fair enough.

1. Why is Harry dying in the triwizard tournament a better plan than Harry randomly dying in the forest?
I read the book a few years ago and saw the movie last year so forgive me if my exact details are a little off but here goes: When students are at Hogwarts they are relatively well protected. We know DD enchants the grounds and teachers are pretty vigilant. So how would Voldy get to Harry? When would Harry be randomly in a forest? Maybe visiting Hagrid but I believe that would be too big a risk considering Voldy was very weak. The tournament put Harry in a very dangerous position and exposed him and DD could do nothing about it because those were the rules. The tournament allowed Harry to be put in a spot where no one could help him.

2. There were not a bunch of people going for the cup, only the few heroes. Plus Moody had been giving Harry "tips" throughout the book to get there. So either Harry dies in the maze or gets to the portkey. Yes, I guess he could have come in second or third, but Voldy took a +EV chance cause Harry is gifted. Your idea was to have Moody lure Harry into his room and then send Harry to Voldemort, but that would have immediately given away Moody was an imposter and given DD someone to interrogate. I guess Moody would have gone with Harry, but then DD would have found the real Moody and pieced together what happened.

The ingenious part of using the tournament was that DD's protection was nullified. Remember he wanted to disqualify Harry from competing but Crouch said it was against the rules. Plus he had no idea who was betraying him. Voldy didnt know at that time Snape was with him so he would have wanted a spy at Hogwarts.

Yes, I admit that there were several ways for Moody to send Harry to VOldemort, but do you agree that using the tounry was one of the best and most effective ways?

[gharp]

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What do you think of this image taken from the film version of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.




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That triangular thing sure looks a lot like the Deathly Hallows symbol...that would be significant since that wasn't described at all until book 7 and the 4th movie came out a while ago. I'm guessing it's a symbol that's appeared a lot in magical lore and JKR (and the movie's set designer) both just borrowed it...?

[Jack Bando]

Gharp, I think she's said she had many of the main things planned out for a while. So she might have said to make that and put it in DD's office.

And didn't Voldy need Harry's blood while he was alive to come back?

[Spence]

No, he needed harry's blood he thought to be able to defeat him. Little did he know it actually had an adverse effect.

[traz]

He used Harry's blood to get his full body back.

[CallMeIshmael]

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I read the book a few years ago and saw the movie last year so forgive me if my exact details are a little off but here goes: When students are at Hogwarts they are relatively well protected. We know DD enchants the grounds and teachers are pretty vigilant. So how would Voldy get to Harry? When would Harry be randomly in a forest? Maybe visiting Hagrid but I believe that would be too big a risk considering Voldy was very weak.

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I dont understand. No matter what Voldemort's actions are the same. Harry is sent to him, he gets the blood, comes back, and lets someone else take care of the details.

I dont mean that Voldy would come and kill Harry in the forest. I just mean, port him to Voldy, kill him, then dump his body somewhere if I care that much about not being found out.

Again, its important to note, that its difficult to believe Harry dissapearing from the maze doenst set off the same bells and whistles to DD that some random death would, it not more. Because, keep in mind, DD built the maze and knows it is impossible for someone to dissapear from it. If someone dies, there is going to be a body in there.


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The tournament put Harry in a very dangerous position and exposed him and DD could do nothing about it because those were the rules. The tournament allowed Harry to be put in a spot where no one could help him.

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Can you kind of clarify this?

Are you saying that DD wouldnt be able to protect him in the maze? Because, if so, DD cant protect him anywhere. DD fails horribly in book 4, by allowing a death eater so much close time with Harry. Harry is compltely vulnerable to moody at all times throughout his 4th year at horwarts

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Your idea was to have Moody lure Harry into his room and then send Harry to Voldemort, but that would have immediately given away Moody was an imposter and given DD someone to interrogate. I guess Moody would have gone with Harry, but then DD would have found the real Moody and pieced together what happened.

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Think through what happens after the two plans.


Maze: Harry dissapears. DD knows this is impossible, since he and a few others built the maze as such. Thus, one of those few people must have made it possible. Interrogate them.

Random portkey: Harry dissapears; possibly found dumped somewhere, possibly not, whatever. Why does DD immediately 'know' its Moody? Did Harry send DD a message right before he stopped by Moody's office "Hey.. im going to be in Moody's office for the next 8 minutues; I just thought you should know in case he ports me out of here"?



To me, the best explanations for the enormously elaborate plan, are either:

1. Port keys somehow didnt work while not in the maze

or

2. That Harry was going to be ported back to the maze after he was killed (if this is true, then you can say that there is a good chance DD would just attribute it to the maze; if Harry dissapears within the maze, it seems logical to believe DD would be very suspicious)

Both would be very good explanations, but neither is all that supported by in book statements. If she wants us to connect the dots, thats cool; but she cant rely on us to draw our own dots.

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do you agree that using the tounry was one of the best and most effective ways?

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For plot purposes, it was awesome [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]