"Jesus" advises Yang to stiff dealers?

[pkrporcupine]

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lets just say it will be $30 per down. my roomate was sent home on day 5 with a total of 38 downs

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$30/down is $60/hour FOR EACH HOUR WORKED. I work a physically demanding job with limited hours (granted, it's mostly for fun) and I don't bitch that I don't get paid for hours I don't work. Perhaps Harrah's should schedule dealers more efficiently so that dealers aren't getting so few downs. I'm perfectly content paying no more than $60/hour, thanks.

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This is EXACTLY why I did not want to quote any amounts! This is absolutly absurd. y'all are just as bad as alot of the dealers i know, never happy with what you have, never happy with the answers to your burning questions, only happy when you are putting someone else down. I AM SOOOOO SORRY that I enjoy my job that is so freaking easy and that I make too much money. You dont like it? dont play the game!

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HAHA WHAT? How about you dont like not getting tipped more, dont DO THE JOB. We will play ,we just wont tip you excessive amounts. You are literally insane, and i suggest you stay a dealer, its fairly obvious you dont have all the screws upstairs to do anything else.

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<font color="red">This was originally posted as an estimate, not a definate ammount. The dealers are paid by TABLES DEALT IN TOURNAMENT not by the hour. On a normal day, a dealer will come to work at 11am for a meeting, get their table assignment and be seated and ready at 1130am. They sign the down card(the card that you see them hand to the next dealer that pushes them out) twice because they are "setting up" the table for the day and will stay there untill the 1230 push. 1230 comes the dealer goes on break for 30 min. At 100 dealer pushes the next table, deals till 130, goes on break for 30. This is called an "up/down" rotation and it was that way alot durring the week because everone gets to work that wants to stay and work. Now lets imagine that this dealer works his full 8 hour shift doing this rotation. He has now made 6.41 for 8 hours. as for his downs he has earned 9 tournament downs for the day. Now we will use the amount of $24 (this is what the downs were worth the first pay period) for each down. so 9x24= $216.00 and 8 x6.41=51.28 for a gross total of $267.28 for the day. It works out to be $33 and change/hour. So do you see that your assumption that we get paid for hours that we are not working is incorrect. Now pick this one apart too </font>

[fizresh]

this payout office scene gives winners:

*MINIMUM accurate information
*MAXIMUM pressure to tip more or be considered a dbag.

maybe the players advisory committee can arrange for a savvy players rep to automatically be in the payout room.

newbie winners are under huge pressure and need a CF in their corner.

[pkrporcupine]

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pkrp,

"going by CF’s number that he stated in the payout room to Jerry means that we should only recieve $214 for 11 days of work?"

Why do you keep saying this? Do you still not understand that Chris was simply talking to Jerry about how much was withheld from only JERRY'S PORTION of the prize pool? It has been shown multiple times in this thread that based on the numbers you stated (1.8%, 65% of that to dealers) that the amount withheld for dealer tips from the main event tournament alone was over $700,000.

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Oh for christs sakes just go back a few posts and read. This stuff is extreemly exhausting, how do y'all do this day after day after day?
Oh and fish.....yet again I dissagree with all of your assumptions and incorrcect.....well i just disagree and thats that

[El Diablo]

p,

"On a normal day.... This is called an "up/down" rotation and it was that way alot durring the week... Now lets imagine that this dealer works his full 8 hour shift... Now we will use the amount of $24... $267.28 for the day. It works out to be $33 and change/hour..."

Thank you for providing the detailed explanation. Using the numbers you provided, dealers dealing a typical 8-hour day during the WSOP would be making $33/hr at a $24/down rate and about $40/hr at a $30/down rate.

This is the type of information players need when giving feedback to Harrah's regarding dealer compensation as well as making their own decisions regarding personal tipping amounts.

So, a followup question. If tip amounts work out to be what you expect and they stay the same for next year, do you think most of the good dealers will return next year to work the WSOP?

[Mitch Evans]

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lets just say it will be $30 per down. my roomate was sent home on day 5 with a total of 38 downs

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$30/down is $60/hour FOR EACH HOUR WORKED. I work a physically demanding job with limited hours (granted, it's mostly for fun) and I don't bitch that I don't get paid for hours I don't work. Perhaps Harrah's should schedule dealers more efficiently so that dealers aren't getting so few downs. I'm perfectly content paying no more than $60/hour, thanks.

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This is EXACTLY why I did not want to quote any amounts! This is absolutly absurd. y'all are just as bad as alot of the dealers i know, never happy with what you have, never happy with the answers to your burning questions, only happy when you are putting someone else down. I AM SOOOOO SORRY that I enjoy my job that is so freaking easy and that I make too much money. You dont like it? dont play the game!

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HAHA WHAT? How about you dont like not getting tipped more, dont DO THE JOB. We will play ,we just wont tip you excessive amounts. You are literally insane, and i suggest you stay a dealer, its fairly obvious you dont have all the screws upstairs to do anything else.

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<font color="red">This was originally posted as an estimate, not a definate ammount. The dealers are paid by TABLES DEALT IN TOURNAMENT not by the hour. On a normal day, a dealer will come to work at 11am for a meeting, get their table assignment and be seated and ready at 1130am. They sign the down card(the card that you see them hand to the next dealer that pushes them out) twice because they are "setting up" the table for the day and will stay there untill the 1230 push. 1230 comes the dealer goes on break for 30 min. At 100 dealer pushes the next table, deals till 130, goes on break for 30. This is called an "up/down" rotation and it was that way alot durring the week because everone gets to work that wants to stay and work. Now lets imagine that this dealer works his full 8 hour shift doing this rotation. He has now made 6.41 for 8 hours. as for his downs he has earned 9 tournament downs for the day. Now we will use the amount of $24 (this is what the downs were worth the first pay period) for each down. so 9x24= $216.00 and 8 x6.41=51.28 for a gross total of $267.28 for the day. It works out to be $33 and change/hour. So do you see that your assumption that we get paid for hours that we are not working is incorrect. Now pick this one apart too </font>

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I didn't actually think Harrah's paid you an hourly outside of the box. $24 a down (maybe $30) + $6.41 in and out of the box? Not bad.

Now come on, CF doesn't need to make the distinction between floor and dealers. Yeah, it sucks that had Chris not been in the room he probably would have toked out $100K, but that's the norm these days- every newbie that wins a tournament has a name player by his side at some point informing them of the withholding.

Again, if they left tipping up to the discretion of the players (i.e., buyin+fee no withholding) would/did you make more money?

[Tater10]

If harrah's didn't take the tip out until prize was awarded, this thread would be 2 posts long.

Cashier: You won $8,650,000. Congratualtions!
Winnar: Thank you
Cashier: Ok, you have to tip 1.8%, or $150,000 for the dealers. Would you like to give anything additional?

Same goes into the tip bucket either way.

[seemorenuts]

When Jerry and (not) Tuan were mere toddlers languishing in their hopeless, godless respective refugee camps, starving, in ill health, and wondering if they would ever be free; they would dream big dreams, specifically--to win large at the World Series of Poker and mostly to get mentioned in threads pertaining to insufficient tipping.

Praise God, all their dreams have come true!

[pkrporcupine]

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p,

"On a normal day.... This is called an "up/down" rotation and it was that way alot durring the week... Now lets imagine that this dealer works his full 8 hour shift... Now we will use the amount of $24... $267.28 for the day. It works out to be $33 and change/hour..."

Thank you for providing the detailed explanation. Using the numbers you provided, dealers dealing a typical 8-hour day during the WSOP would be making $33/hr at a $24/down rate and about $40/hr at a $30/down rate.

This is the type of information players need when giving feedback to Harrah's regarding dealer compensation as well as making their own decisions regarding personal tipping amounts.

So, a followup question. If tip amounts work out to be what you expect and they stay the same for next year, do you think most of the good dealers will return next year to work the WSOP?

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<font color="red">Yes they will most likely come back. also there are dealers that have worked this event every year now for 20 + years </font>

[pkrporcupine]

Again, if they left tipping up to the discretion of the players (i.e., buyin+fee no withholding) would/did you make more money?

I believe that my personality and skills earn my pay so i would like to think that if that happened i would do ok. i will say tho that i would seriously consider not working that event if it was set that way. The nature of my job gives me that freedom to be able to say no and just sit that one out but still have other options to fill the time.

[Zetack]

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p,

"Next, we do not get paid by the hour this year, we get paid by downs (each table we deal), we do get an hourly $6.41 from harrahs."

"means that we should only recieve $214 for 11 days of work? Hmmm that doesnt sound to good to me."

"Now We started the main this year with over 700 dealers"

OK, so let's work out the math here.

There were 700 dealers involved in dealing during the 11 days of the ME.

These dealers split the following:

Hourly rate of $6.41
$60,000,000 * 1.8% * 65% = $702,000
Tips when dealing cash games
Additional tip pool from other tourneys during this time

So, a dealer who dealt 8 hours a day over these 11 days would make about $1565 [$564 ($6.41 * 8 * 11) + $1,000 (700k/700)] PLUS tips they received while dealing at cash games.

Is that correct, p? Please correct the assumptions regarding how many downs the average dealer dealt in tournament and cash games.

The way many reasonable posters on this forum approach this issue is to think about whether or not the dealers are getting paid a fair wage when all things are taken into account.

The numbers make it look like dealers are getting paid far more than the $214 you thought you would get paid, more like in the $1500-2000 range.

Do you feel like the actual numbers are fair compensation for this period? If not, what would you consider reasonable compensation to expect for dealing the WSOP?

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But is this the proper way to think about how much we should tip? On occaision my wife and I go out to a very nice dinner. We drop about $150 on the meal. Takes us about an hour and a half. A twenty percent tip would be $30 dollars.

Do we then go, wait a second, suppose the waiter covers five tables at a time. $150 per table probably would be low as an average, since many tables have more than two people dining. Figure over the course of six hours or so the waiter covers 20 tables. Why the waiter is getting $600 dollars for a six hour shift or $100 dollars an hour. Even assuming some of that is shared with the hostess and busboys that's an outrageous amount! Why, I'll just leave an eight dollar tip, the same as I do for the waitress at Outback - that's a much more reasonable earn for the waiter.

I don't do that - Instead I pony up my thirty dollar tip and take my wife home for the good 'ole sack time.

I think the question of whether to tip an additional amount when there is already tip taken out is a valid one. I'm not sure that basing it on what we perceive the dealers to make is consistent with how we tip any other endeavor.

--Zetack