Dating: If you're short, you better make $$$$$$$

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They're at least as superficial. A huge part of their potential mates are commonly excluded instantly because of money, while absolute super-trolls get plenty of attention if they have a few bucks behind them. This is hard to see if you're the one with the bucks, and not flattering to admit, because it would be nicer to claim many of those victories for one's charm, wit, or good looks.

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I feel like I've had this discussion with you before, but it seems to me that you're always harping on how women like money, usually with the implication that this is somehow wrong, or immoral, or bad. You're certainly not alone on this front, but you're among the most vocal in this type of thread, usually.

I don't see it as being fundamentally any different from me liking breasts. I feel like this has to be the result of some kind of cultural indoctrination over the last few decades. What dictates the modes of attraction that are socially acceptable?

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I'd say Aloysius's answer pulls some weight, but also that having some experience with people who have been given a raw deal by life pulls more, and also that yours does too and that it goes beyond what you're saying into probably being encoded into our genes. However, violence probably is too; following our genetic heritage isn't necessarily the best thing we can do or what makes us most human. Being able to act against them may well be; animals basically have essentially no choice.

Probably a far smaller percentage of women passed along surviving genes who banged the tired, the hungry, the poor, the wretched huddled masses yearning to breathe free than did those who ran after whatever douchebag was the chieftain's son.

Also, bringing up that the real world exists and plays a great part in life is a tonic for a board that is overrepresented in young white males with plenty of money and little experience. "I've got a new attitude" seems to be what life's about for the lucky and the inexperienced, but for the rest, economics looms up far more importantly. It's not a subject we really feel comfortable talking about in America, except to say that if there are any problems, we've got them all solved. It's good to remember there's a lot more going on than lots of people would like to think about.

[DrewDevil]

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The single biggest factor in getting chicks has always been and will always be trying to get chicks. Most guys who are failures with women never attempt to ask girls out or to get laid, thereby confirming their secret theories that they CAN'T go out or get laid.

PUAs are obviously better at it than others, and tall guys may have an advantage, but approaching women and making the attempt is more important than anything else.

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Maybe, but it doesn't seem so obvious while reading this thread.

[findingneema]

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I haven't posted in a long time, but saw El D's response and had a couple questions. I'm a 5'7" guy, am Chinese, am not particularly attractive, and have pretty mediocre game. That being said, I generally don't have any kind of problem bringing women home, and when they're not asian, they're usually taller than me.

I live in SF, and wanted to ask 2+2ers if they thought city guys have an advantage simply because the pick up pool is larger than average. Also El D, I don't know what kind of crowd you hang around with, but I do find that I have to work a LOT harder when I hang out with my white yuppie friends to pick up women as opposed to when a more mixed group heads SoM or hipster bar hopping or the like. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to ask, but it boils down to something like, I know the height and race cards play into picking women up as the two often relate to women's attractiveness scales, but to what degree do you think the race card plays into everything? I ask, b/c i generally feel more constrained by race than I've ever felt by height. Also, do you think you could have a long term relationship w/ a taller woman, b/c I think that would be much more difficult than bringing one home for the night or dating one for a month. I don't care about height when I'm trying to pick women up, but if I were to date a noticeably taller one for an extended period of time, i think it would get to me.

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Some observations from another SF person:

I'm white, 6'1", not from here but have been here for almost 5 years. I definitely notice I'm one of the taller people when I go out, unless it's in the Marina, where it's more like I'm above average. When I roll with my 6'5" buddy, we definitely get noticed (and since he's happily engaged, it works out well for me). I've had several girls 5'9"+ tell me that it's hard for them to find tall enough guys here. San Francisco is a short city. Maybe that's why pickup basketball sucks so much here.

Race-wise, the only problems I have can be with Asian girls. There are plenty that will not do a white guy. If they're in a group of 4+ and there's no other white people they're talking to, it's an impenetrable fortress. I had an Asian friend take me to Thirsty Bear one night and I must have been the 4th white guy there with like 300 Asians. Dude was nice enough to pay for my drinks.

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Yeah, that "stick to your own kind" is still really bad with a huge percentage of Asians. Having an Asian friend you're with is a huge part of breaking through that. Otherwise, it's fairly close to forget it.

Unless they're alone. It's when they're with friends that they're more afraid to be "improper" by dating someone of another race, or even talking to him. An Asian woman alone is very different from an Asian hanging around Asian friends. Very insular cultures.

[Klompy]

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I'm white, 6'1", not from here but have been here for almost 5 years. I definitely notice I'm one of the taller people when I go out,

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This sounds really strange to me, do some of you other guys who are 6'1 notice you're tall?

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No, but I notice something unusual when guys get down to about 5'4" or so. But nothing that sticks much. They have to hit about 5'2" or maybe even shorter for me to think, wow, that guy is short. Maybe because I grew up with mostly Asians and then as an adult spent a whole lot of my working life with Mexicans. A good height for those guys was like 5'6" or 5'5". 5'8" or 5'9" was kinda tallish.

[Klompy]

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No, but I notice something unusual when guys get down to about 5'4" or so.

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This sounds about right, I dont think I ever notice a guy is short until they get about down to here.

I'm still confused by the other poster who's 6'1 but is the tallest person most places he goes? I live in a tall town of dutch people where 6'2 is prob about average for guys my age so it's a little shocking.

[troymclur]

Everytime i watch The Sopranos i think about a fat Tony can get women. Granted, its a show and he's rich and powerful, but i know so many guys that are average to sorta ugly that get hit on all the time because they're so tall.

I can't believe that Andre the Giant didn't bag mad poon even before he was famous.

[tuq]

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I can't believe that Andre the Giant didn't bag mad poon even before he was famous.

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Yeah but the poor guy could never sixty-nine no matter how famous he got. That's pretty sad. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Subfallen]

Diablo is of course right. This thread is retarded. The only amusing element is how some short guys think it's unfair that height is such an important criterion in sexual attraction. "Why can't women just see the real me?" LOL. People are such goddamn self-entitled idiots these days.

Also, the only legitimate advantage of being short is that you never intimidate people, which can often facilitate communication. Yes, the flip side is that nobody respects you, but whatever. Who needs respect from goddamn self-entitled idiots anyways.