Ftp stole my money

[MicroBob]

guys: we are still debating this whole issue of FT's support and the confiscation of funds.

Please, cease and desist on the politics stuff.

[suzzer99]

Sorry. I don't know what came over me. It all just happened so fast...

[Necromancer]

[ QUOTE ]
Very easy to be theives when you hide behind corrupt goverments depending on your money and have no toll free number huh Ftp?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eric
If this was me I would pursue it through the kaahnawake gaming commission as they license FTP. I am not sure how your laws work over the other side of the Atlantic but perhaps this would be a place to take this further. I notice they have a complaints section on their website.

http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommission/

[Annulus]

Yesterday I was still confused but after reading FTPDoug's post im 100% confident in FTP. Sure the investigation took way too long, but at least they are investigating. Hopefully like FTPDoug says they have room for improvment. But overall im very satisfied with FTP's stance and will continue to play at FTP.

[JayLeno]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I believe I've got this sorted out. Here's the timeline as I understand it:

On 9/1 Eric created an account and made a deposit. Over the next 5 days he was the recipient of chip dumping from 7 different accounts, all later confirmed to be involved in credit card fraud. While this chip dumping was going on, he was also playing in legitimate games (and losing the combined fraudulant money). By 9/6 he was broke on this account and was at his current deposit limit, so he created the account he posted about ("rapperson").

Rapperson played for a total of 14 sessions over the span of 4 hours (from about 12:30AM ET until 4:30AM ET on 9/7), against a total of less than 20 players. So for those of you wondering why nobody seems to have any hand histories against this player, this is why. It looks like rapperson was only chip dumped to from one other player who later turned out to be a credit card fraudster. With this ~$8K in cash he went on to play 25/50 NL, 100/200 NL and 25/50 PLO, this time ending up with the slightly under $14K we're talking about.

He then tried to cash out, triggering the investigation.

So that's why his account is locked, his funds seized, and he's most certainly no longer welcome at FTP.
Doug

[/ QUOTE ]
I do not at all find this enough evidence to freeze an account and treat a person like you did.
How do you know for sure it was chipdumbing? was the games heads up? Did he play the 7 persons heads up the first time?
Why did he lose it afterwards the first time?
Seems rather random to me. Maybe you got more evidence than this - I REALLY hope so!
What if I one day find myself playing against a guy who have stolen a creditcard - without me knowing it - and he loses some money to me. BANG and my account gets frozen, my money confiscated and I get an email telling me....... nothing!
No thanks - I have cashed out my money from FT and I´m not planning on coming back untill you treat people better!
Im not saying OP didnt cheat - im saying this is not proof to me! Not at all!

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This thread is infuriates me to no end. ...


Now, everyone who threatened to withhold their business from FTP, how does it feel to be a shill for some 18 year old con artist?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you missed the major point that some of us have made. Whether or not eric is a scammer, FTP's policies are quite unfair for all of us, on a number of levels - and what's worse, there's no independent review.

Even companies with higher integrity and better support (Stars, and even Party) have been on the wrong side of disputes. By protecting the rights of the guilty, we also ensure the protection of the wrongfully accused.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you took the time to read their 'terms and conditions' that you are required to agree to before signing up for an account, you would see they have exactly the right to do what they did.

If you don't like the terms, then don't agree and don't play online poker. The terms are basically the same at every site I've signed up to play.

[Gregg777]

[ QUOTE ]
Why doesn't Ftpdoug post who I won and lost money off, you think I actually remember after 2 1/2 months? If I did something wrong, you think id still be pleading my case? As I said this is not about the money but about the way I was treated.

[/ QUOTE ]

FTPDoug,

While I believe your side of the story over Eric's, he has a valid point.

You have aired this on a public forum, (granted he started it), but will not provide any hand histories.

Can you either provide some hand histories or give a clear reason why you will not?

Not providing the one bit of proof that could be verified, which you admittedly have, seems highly suspect.

Some of us might also be a little less leery if it wasn't for the other recent incident of FTP locking a player's account, although you were instrumental in getting it fixed.

[KinkyKid]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I believe I've got this sorted out. Here's the timeline as I understand it:

On 9/1 Eric created an account and made a deposit. Over the next 5 days he was the recipient of chip dumping from 7 different accounts, all later confirmed to be involved in credit card fraud. While this chip dumping was going on, he was also playing in legitimate games (and losing the combined fraudulant money). By 9/6 he was broke on this account and was at his current deposit limit, so he created the account he posted about ("rapperson").

Rapperson played for a total of 14 sessions over the span of 4 hours (from about 12:30AM ET until 4:30AM ET on 9/7), against a total of less than 20 players. So for those of you wondering why nobody seems to have any hand histories against this player, this is why. It looks like rapperson was only chip dumped to from one other player who later turned out to be a credit card fraudster. With this ~$8K in cash he went on to play 25/50 NL, 100/200 NL and 25/50 PLO, this time ending up with the slightly under $14K we're talking about.

He then tried to cash out, triggering the investigation.

So that's why his account is locked, his funds seized, and he's most certainly no longer welcome at FTP.
Doug

[/ QUOTE ]
I do not at all find this enough evidence to freeze an account and treat a person like you did.
How do you know for sure it was chipdumbing? was the games heads up? Did he play the 7 persons heads up the first time?
Why did he lose it afterwards the first time?
Seems rather random to me. Maybe you got more evidence than this - I REALLY hope so!
What if I one day find myself playing against a guy who have stolen a creditcard - without me knowing it - and he loses some money to me. BANG and my account gets frozen, my money confiscated and I get an email telling me....... nothing!
No thanks - I have cashed out my money from FT and I´m not planning on coming back untill you treat people better!
Im not saying OP didnt cheat - im saying this is not proof to me! Not at all!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think when 7 people have all been found to be involved in credit card fraud and they all lose the bulk of the money to one player, it should not be hard to find collusion. Maybe you think credit card fraud happens a lot more than I do. But seriously, you trace the 7, all the money ends up in the same spot...You pull hand histories, things look shady. Done deal.

He loses it afterwards because how does it look to only make money off accounts funded through credit card fraud. Even scammers have a little sense. You beat some legit players, suddenly you hope the cashout looks ok.

And I think if someday you take money off an account funded with fraudulent info, and there is a pattern, you will have the account locked, while they check hand histories.

Everyone keeps harping on two months. I don't remember seeing any other complaints about FTP stealing money from customers. There was one thread where the guy played in the same house, from the same IP address as other players, but that appeared shady. So, it took 2.5 months to complete the investigation on someone who was involved in fraud and chipdumping. And it hasn't happened to others. Is it entirely possible they had proved the allegations in 3 days? Yes. Does a site owe it to someone that tried to scam them to give them their justification immediately? Probably. But as they have no real legal recourse against someone from the US where full tilt is already not supposed to be taking their business, I have no problem with them dragging this out with the POS. As for people demanding the proof, I don't think that Full Tilt has any obligation to share this info. If Eric wants to pursue charges against them where they are based, I'm sure all of the evidence comes out. But to say they owe us anything is silly.

I'm sure very few share my stance, but I will wait until an innocent person has money taken and has to wait 3 months to get it AND an apology back to start to freak out. I remember when Party and other sites started pulling out, and everyone praised PS, FTP, UB and the others that said they'd stay. Now, FTP nails one guy that tried to scam them, and its "if you cant prove it, we're leaving".

So leave already.

[MobBarley]

People like the OP are the same people that collude with there friends to try and take money from honest players. He is a scumbag and got what he had coming. Has there ever been a well known poster with a similar problem?

[Gregg777]

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Has there ever been a well known poster with a similar problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually there was a post just a couple of weeks ago where FTP froze a guy's account. I believe he had $25,000 in it.

After he posted on here and made it public and FTPDoug looked into it, it turned out to be he was innocent.

So yes, it has happened, and very recently.

That said, I think FTP is legit here, however, I still don't see why they would hesitate posting a hand history for verification.