The state of Notre Dame football.

[Bigdaddydvo]

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As other's have noted, Charlie's skills literally have nothing to do with Xs and Os, schemes, or anything tangible on the football field. Despite the fact he's literally accomplished nothing (except for taking overrated teams full of some other's guy's recruits to BCS bowls/beating a 7-5 Michigan team/winning the Commander-and-Chief trophy/losing a close game to USC), Charlie's real skill pretty much centers brainwashing ND nation into completely contradicting themselves time and again (sometimes in less than a couple of hour hours) while prompting absolutely no self doubt or reflection about how wrong all of their predictions about Weis's skills proved to be.

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You're quick to point out that Weis "hasn't done anything." His most important contribution during his tenure is that Notre Dame is finally beating the teams it should beat Gone are the Davie/Willingham-esque losses to the likes of BYU and Syracuse that would drive all of us Irish fans bonkers. Not sure how, in fairness to your hindsight, you point out that the Irish defeated a 7-5 UM squad in '05, (ranked #3 at the time) but gloss over UM's big win in '06 by failing to mention how they absolutely steamrolled the Big Ten that year and were 3 points away from playing for a National Championship.

Thesis: Generally speaking, Notre Dame is either hyped up to be significantly better or significantly worse than they actually are.

Examples: Before the '05 season, Mark May and Lee Corso made bold predictions of an 0-6 start for the Irish. The first six games were actually 4-2 w/close losses to USC and Michigan State.

In 2006, the Irish began the season ranked #2 behind OSU. I (along with most other sober, realistic fan types) knew that was a stretch. 3 bad losses to UM, USC, and LSU confirmed what Irish fans knew deep in their hearts but were quick to hide, that we were greatly overrated that year.

The problem is, Notre Dame enflames such strong passions of undying love or vehement hate, that it becomes nearly impossible for most folks to conduct an objective assessment of the team.

As for this season, yes, at least to this point, we are as bad advertised. This season exposed a huge flaw in Weis's coaching armor that wasn't apparent before this year, namely the importance of developing football fundamentals in his young players. Fortunately, Weis is smart enough to say "yes, I [censored] up. I'm responsible for this mess. Here's how I'm going to fix it." It's his willingness admit mistakes to make adjustments, all while working his ass off, that make me want to see this thing through with him. Compared to the blank stare of Ty Willingham that said "I got nothin'" while mumbling something about how his team didn't execute, and I can't help but feel optimistic.

Is CW the right man for the job? At this point I still believe he is. You'll know I've lost faith when my Avatar turns into Knute Rockne...but I'm still a long way off. What I am certain is that Ty Willingham was absolutely NOT the right man to win at ND...if CW fails here I know he'll go down swinging something other than his golf club.

[pvn]

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You're quick to point out that Weis "hasn't done anything." His most important contribution during his tenure is that Notre Dame is finally beating the teams it should beat

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...

Too easy.

[MyTurn2Raise]

they were -3 v G Tech that first week

I don't know why

but, apparently, that was a team they should've beat

[MrFeelNothin]

[ QUOTE ]
MyTurn2Raise, how much can a head coach reasonably be expected to recruit in the final 1-2 months before signing day? If you look at recruiting now, almost every team has at least 10 guys verbally committed, many with closer to 20 or more, and everyone who's any good at recruiting has been talking to recruits since their junior year. If he had left the Patriots, what is the likelihood that that recruiting class would have been substantially improved, given that at the time he was hired he was just another coordinator under the shadow of Bellichick and not some returning savior ala Nick Saban.

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How could Willingham be expected to recruit when everyone is calling for his head? How was he supposed to convince potential recruits that he would be there for their entire college career?

[MrFeelNothin]

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DVaut,

We prefer to talk about reality not what morans think.

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I don't know where the argument in this thread is occurring, but its certainly not in reality.

[Bigdaddydvo]

[ QUOTE ]
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MyTurn2Raise, how much can a head coach reasonably be expected to recruit in the final 1-2 months before signing day? If you look at recruiting now, almost every team has at least 10 guys verbally committed, many with closer to 20 or more, and everyone who's any good at recruiting has been talking to recruits since their junior year. If he had left the Patriots, what is the likelihood that that recruiting class would have been substantially improved, given that at the time he was hired he was just another coordinator under the shadow of Bellichick and not some returning savior ala Nick Saban.

[/ QUOTE ]

How could Willingham be expected to recruit when everyone is calling for his head? How was he supposed to convince potential recruits that he would be there for their entire college career?

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This wasn't an issue for his Feb '04 signing class the previous year and he still put together one of the worst in Irish history...if his first two classes were dynamite and only has last was marginal you might have an argument.

[shemp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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MyTurn2Raise, how much can a head coach reasonably be expected to recruit in the final 1-2 months before signing day? If you look at recruiting now, almost every team has at least 10 guys verbally committed, many with closer to 20 or more, and everyone who's any good at recruiting has been talking to recruits since their junior year. If he had left the Patriots, what is the likelihood that that recruiting class would have been substantially improved, given that at the time he was hired he was just another coordinator under the shadow of Bellichick and not some returning savior ala Nick Saban.

[/ QUOTE ]

How could Willingham be expected to recruit when everyone is calling for his head? How was he supposed to convince potential recruits that he would be there for their entire college career?

[/ QUOTE ]

This wasn't an issue for his Feb '04 signing class the previous year and he still put together one of the worst in Irish history...if his first two classes were dynamite and only has last was marginal you might have an argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

This quote gets tossed around like it means something-- like the difference between it and a top 25 class couldn't be made up with some meaningless 2-stars commits who'd be unlikely to play.

I don't know what constraints Ty was under or thought he was under from admissions, but I'll agree there isn't any reason that ND should not have pulled a better class in 2004-- probably for different reasons than you, but we can leave it there. And if he'd won, he'd still be there, anyway. And who cares, life went on and he's got another shot at big time football.

Still, I am amused(wrong word?) that we've determined that Ty is inarticulate, lazy, and stupid (from his reliance on vapid cliche in post-game pressers and according to 3rd hand comments from the ND rubber chicken circuit). And race has absolutely nothing to do with it. (With what? With anything!)

[highlife]

[ QUOTE ]
they were -3 v G Tech that first week

I don't know why

but, apparently, that was a team they should've beat

[/ QUOTE ]

And then G-Tech lost to Virginia. GT is like....not good.

[Gregatron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
they were -3 v G Tech that first week

I don't know why

but, apparently, that was a team they should've beat

[/ QUOTE ]

And then G-Tech lost to Virginia. GT is like....not good.

[/ QUOTE ]
No kidding. They only beat ND 33-3!

[b donka]

This is pretty funny.

Bud Light "Real Men of Genius"

Announcer: Today we salute you, Mr. Delusional, Irrational Notre Dame football Fan....

Announcer: Season after season, year after year, you try to justify your absurdly high pre-season ranking.
Backup singer: Why aren't we number one??

Announcer: You scramble to make futile attempts at damage control when the Irish lose to yet another grossly inferior opponent.
Backup singer: Charlie's headset was broken!

Announcer: Inevitably, you'll bring up the past, and boast of championships won 20 years before you were born.
Backup singer: We wore leather helmets!!

Announcer: You will point out that you have more heisman winners than any other program, as though that is relevant to the current season.
Backup singer: Been playing since the 1880ssssss!

Announcer: Go on, ignore that home loss to Boston College in the regular season for the 6th consecutive time in a row...
Backup singer: BC has better Christians!!

Announcer: And continue to believe that you'll actually win a bowl game some time this century.
Backup singer: We're O for the 2000's!!!

Announcer: So crack open an ice cold Bud Light, oh Emperor of Excuses, and take comfort knowing that when you don't finish in the top 25, you'll be back to number three when the pre-season polls come out next year.
Backup singer: Mr. Delusional, Irrational and Hopelessly Pathetic Irish
Fannnnnnn!