"Jesus" advises Yang to stiff dealers?

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

i read a lot of this, but when i got to the part when the whiny dealer was insulting construction workers i was too disgusted to continue....

dealing poker is one of the easiest, most enjoyable, simplest, ridiculously overpaid jobs in the world. i have no idea why any of them would be complaining. i cant even think of a more simple job that gets $50+ an hr.

[frommagio]

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CF's point was that 2% (actually, 1.8%) of a $62 mil prize fund had already been turned over for tips, and he cited the amount that had already come from the winner's share.

That was pretty good info that Jerry needed to know - delivered by a knowledgeable person at just the right time. It demonstrated that the tipped personnel had been well taken care of by the players. This allowed Jerry to realize that any additional gratuity would be entirely optional.

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Actually it was listed on the website and various paperwork exactly how the withholding % was distributed. It said exactly 1.8% will be witheld for tournament staff. And obviuosly the 1.2% figure or 65/70% has gotten out quite easily (other than this thread), I don't see how Harrahs refused to share information. All these numbers were readily available online and in writing at the Rio.

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You're missing the point. The Ferguson info was essentially accurate; the winner had already left a very nice tip, and Chris delivered the approximate number.

It's not the players' job to tell the employees and the management how they should arrange to divide it up, or even to delve into the details. I guess that's where you disagree.

The withheld gratuity at the restaurant is a great analogy. Chris just gave the info that any respectable restaurant would have provided.

[Analyst]

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Every player that enters has 1.8 percent out of its contributed prize money given to dealers and floor staff as gratuity.

1.3 percent of the 1.8 percent goes to dealer tip pool.

Every player that enters is giving $122.20 to the dealer tip pool.

Now, maybe Ferguson could've said, "well, Jerry, you have already given $122.20 to the dealers, as did everybody who entered the main event, therefore, I would give ZERO."

It is important to note, that for those that say people who busted out did not contribute to the tipping, I would say, then why didn't they receive their $122.20 back.

Therefore, Mr. Yang contributed exactly the same as every other entrant, except for those that added an additional tip when cashing out.


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The above might seem to make sense, but in reality is simply and completely wrong. It's the same as saying that in the roulette, the house makes its money from (for example) people betting on red when black comes up. In truth, the house makes its money by paying those who bet on black (and always bet on black [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]) less than the correct payout as determined by the odds.

In the exact same fashion, the dealer tips come only from the winners being paid less than they should based on the buyin. Jerry Yang did tip $100k or so, and those who finished out of the money tipped exactly $0.

[Analyst]

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How much of Mr. Yang's $9,400 entry was taken out for tips exactly? Certainly, it was 1.8 percent (with 1.3 going to the dealers.) The dealer/floor toke was paid before the tournament started. Everyone ponied up exactly the same amount.

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NONE of his entry was taken out for tips. The tips came from the PRIZE POOL.

See the roulette example in my previous post if you do not understand the difference.

[Ramon Scott]

The winner didn't leave a tip at all.

Remember, Chris Ferguson told him... "zero."

The players left gave a 1.8 percent tip prior to the start of the tournament (approx. 1.3 percent going to the dealers).

We may be able to call it around two percent since there were likely some players that did cash who elected to leave an addition gratuity.

Suz and Jfert, what part of this assigned toke do you not understand? And what gives Mr. Yang the right to proclaim that he is paying the gratuity for all those that didn't cash when all those folks who indeed didn't cash in the tournament were forced to give $174 prior to the start of the event.

If you are saying my argument is flawed, then will Mr. Yang consider returning the $174 to those who didn't cash in the tournament?

I am not arguing that amount of assigned gratuity at the start, in fact, it may be a safeguard by Harrah's that they get relatively competent personnel for the game's largest and most important event.

I only argue that Mr. Yang, under the advice of Mr. Ferguson, appears to me to be a far-less-than-average tipper for someone who has garnered approx. $4.5 million of winnings in a poker tournament.

If you folks would've done the same thing, then I would classify you the same way. However, if you would've toked an additional 1-2 percent of your winnings to the tip pool, then I for one, would've said, "wow, what a guy (gal), can you believe the extraordinary generosity of the winner!"

Your trying to reinforce in me the percentage of gratuity, which I accept, but that still doesn't change the outcome.

Until an overwhleming argument is shown to me, I will consider Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Yang, far-below-average tippers. This will not change my judgement of them as people, as they appear to be quite upstanding.

[David Sklansky]

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Good. Dealers who think they should be wealthy are idiots. Try going to college and getting a real job. You shouldnt be making $50/hour dealing poker.

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Why shouldn't I? I may not be the best dealer out there but I have a kick ass job that i love and why shouldn't i get paid well for a job that takes alot of skill and knowledge to be done right? Hell just having to put up with players with piss poor attitudes that blame their crappy play or poor luck on me and the cards i deal.....i should make alot more

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Should you make more than nurses?

[Analyst]

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If you folks would've done the same thing, then I would classify you the same way. However, if you would've toked an additional 1-2 percent of your winnings to the tip pool, then I for one, would've said, "wow, what a guy (gal), can you believe the extraordinary generosity of the winner!"

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Your arguement makes no sense whatsoever. If Yang had gotten the ~$8.4M that the entry fees dictated and left a $150k tip (for the same $8.25M net), you'd be saying "wow, what a guy!" Simply because the amount was taken automaticallly from his winnings, however, now (in your mind) he's a bum.

How can you possibly rationalize this?

[Homer]

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dealers complain they're under paid, but won't tell how much they're making

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exactly. stop complaining if you aren't willing to be upfront about how much you make. obviously dealers complain because they want the tipping culture to change/improve, yet how can they create change without showing that they are being paid unfairly.

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I NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT MY PAY OR SAID THAT I WAS BEING PAID UNFAIRLY
OMG do you even understand the english language???
I am highly unimpressed with the lack of intelligence found in this forum. I really hope that Harrahs and the PAB will bring on a rep for the dealers so this can be better for the players and staff next year

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You obviously feel players should tip an amount in addition to the tournament fee. Thank you for completely ignoring my simple questions about how much you were paid and for insulting me unprovoked. Sorry you have to pay taxes like everyone else. Sorry you might not have made enough from dealing the WSOP to support yourself for 2/3 of the year. I'm sure your posts in this thread have enlightened everyone here and you will be more adequately compensated next year.

[Ramon Scott]

No, then he would be an average tipper.

That doesn't make someone a "bum".

In fact, I would thank them "very much."

The OP said how much she thought of Mr. Yang, as she was overwhelmingly positive.

When dealing with this size of prize, the difference, between two and four percent, is how I would categorize the increasing generosity of the players which cash, not just the winner, mind you.

Taking the winner into consideration, however, it could've been an additional toke of 10k on up.

If the winner, and others who have cashed, gave an additional tip, would there be a thread, saying that we are acting irresponsibly by adding an additional gratuity. From several accounts so far, there are players who did give an additional tip when getting paid out.

[suzy89222]

"If the winner and others who have cashed that we don't know if they gave an additional tip, would there be a thread, saying that we are acting irresponsibly by adding an additional gratuity."

for your sake, i hope english isnt your first language.