Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows discussion thread (SPOILERS)

[Jack Bando]

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true but it would be obv he got killed by the killing curse then. Which nothing in the maze would do though?

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It may have been obvious. But, that doesn't imply that Voldemort had returned.

Harry's death would have been a mystery. That would have suited Voldemort very well.

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If you die from AK, you just look dead. There's no green smoking hole in your face. They would have blamed it on Krum probably.

(Although the DE's would have been called meaning Snape would know)

[Dynasty]

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true but it would be obv he got killed by the killing curse then. Which nothing in the maze would do though?

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It may have been obvious. But, that doesn't imply that Voldemort had returned.

Harry's death would have been a mystery. That would have suited Voldemort very well.

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If you die from AK, you just look dead. There's no green smoking hole in your face. They would have blamed it on Krum probably.

(Although the DE's would have been called meaning Snape would know)

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Yes, Snape would know. Whether he stays loyal to Dumbledore or joins Voldemort after Harry's death is pure speculation.

However, we should be looking at this from Voldemort's perspective. Voldemort never knew Snape was loyal to Dumbledore. So, Voldemort has little reason to believe Dumbledore would know immediatley that Voldemort had returned.

Of course, when Snape did not respond to the summons to the graveyard (along with Karkaroff and Crouch Jr.), Voldemort suspected he may have left him forever.

[mattnxtc]

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I just finished and was very satisfied with the book. Probably my favorite of the whole series. I have one beef with the series that isn't even that big a deal but still bothers me.

Was there anything unique about Lily Potter sacrificing herself to protect Harry? Surely she wasn't the only person who ever sacrificed themselves to Voldemort to protect someone else. How come no one else has this powerful magical protection? And you know how Dumbledore always has explanations for Harry's repeated survival against seemingly certain death? Those explanations were kinda lame IMO. They always involved his mother's sacrifice or his ability to love or Harry's blood or Voldemort's soul inside Harry, etc. It felt like these explanations were kinda pulled out of someone's ass.

Aside from that, I thought the series was excellent. I will probably be rereading the whole series soon. Maybe I'll be able to answer my own question if I see something I missed.

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Ill take a shot at this for you...I dont think in most of his killings he went there specifically to kill babies...I think if they were there after he killed everybody else then he would just kinda be like "eh what the heck and kill the baby as well."...in Harry's case though he came specifically to kill Harry and only Harry. His parents were killed trying to protect Harry and Lily sacrificed herself to save Harry in the ultimate act of love.

I am sure others were "protecting" their kids but Voldemort wasnt there specifically for that kid and more probably wanted to kill the moms/dads.

[bobman0330]

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I just finished and was very satisfied with the book. Probably my favorite of the whole series. I have one beef with the series that isn't even that big a deal but still bothers me.

Was there anything unique about Lily Potter sacrificing herself to protect Harry? Surely she wasn't the only person who ever sacrificed themselves to Voldemort to protect someone else. How come no one else has this powerful magical protection? And you know how Dumbledore always has explanations for Harry's repeated survival against seemingly certain death? Those explanations were kinda lame IMO. They always involved his mother's sacrifice or his ability to love or Harry's blood or Voldemort's soul inside Harry, etc. It felt like these explanations were kinda pulled out of someone's ass.

Aside from that, I thought the series was excellent. I will probably be rereading the whole series soon. Maybe I'll be able to answer my own question if I see something I missed.

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Ill take a shot at this for you...I dont think in most of his killings he went there specifically to kill babies...I think if they were there after he killed everybody else then he would just kinda be like "eh what the heck and kill the baby as well."...in Harry's case though he came specifically to kill Harry and only Harry. His parents were killed trying to protect Harry and Lily sacrificed herself to save Harry in the ultimate act of love.

I am sure others were "protecting" their kids but Voldemort wasnt there specifically for that kid and more probably wanted to kill the moms/dads.

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Also, in the flashbacks, it seemed that Voldemort told Lily to leave (maybe a bit unbelievable? or maybe Snape made him promise not to kill her if he didn't have to?), but she insisted on dying to protect Harry.

[GBP04]

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I just finished and was very satisfied with the book. Probably my favorite of the whole series. I have one beef with the series that isn't even that big a deal but still bothers me.

Was there anything unique about Lily Potter sacrificing herself to protect Harry? Surely she wasn't the only person who ever sacrificed themselves to Voldemort to protect someone else. How come no one else has this powerful magical protection? And you know how Dumbledore always has explanations for Harry's repeated survival against seemingly certain death? Those explanations were kinda lame IMO. They always involved his mother's sacrifice or his ability to love or Harry's blood or Voldemort's soul inside Harry, etc. It felt like these explanations were kinda pulled out of someone's ass.

Aside from that, I thought the series was excellent. I will probably be rereading the whole series soon. Maybe I'll be able to answer my own question if I see something I missed.

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Ill take a shot at this for you...I dont think in most of his killings he went there specifically to kill babies...I think if they were there after he killed everybody else then he would just kinda be like "eh what the heck and kill the baby as well."...in Harry's case though he came specifically to kill Harry and only Harry. His parents were killed trying to protect Harry and Lily sacrificed herself to save Harry in the ultimate act of love.

I am sure others were "protecting" their kids but Voldemort wasnt there specifically for that kid and more probably wanted to kill the moms/dads.

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I think it's because Voldemort was actually willing to spare Lily but she never left Harry's side.

[KittyKat]

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What I'm saying is that maybe, during the normal magical protection of the school and grounds, the portkey wouldn't have worked. The Tri-Wizard tournament called for some of these enchantments to be lifted in order to setup the maze, as someone else said, and therefore this allowed fake Moody to setup the portkey easily and undetected.

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Book 5, after Mr Weasley is attacked in the ministry, DD creates a portkey in his office to send harry and the weasley kids to grimmauld place. So it seems portkeys still work in hogwarts, unless DD or his office were particularly special.

[luckybacon]

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What I'm saying is that maybe, during the normal magical protection of the school and grounds, the portkey wouldn't have worked. The Tri-Wizard tournament called for some of these enchantments to be lifted in order to setup the maze, as someone else said, and therefore this allowed fake Moody to setup the portkey easily and undetected.

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Book 5, after Mr Weasley is attacked in the ministry, DD creates a portkey in his office to send harry and the weasley kids to grimmauld place. So it seems portkeys still work in hogwarts, unless DD or his office were particularly special.

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i dont think really any law/restriction thing applies to DD. Since he created most the protection, i think he can do whatever the hell he wants

[CallMeIshmael]

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The reason for the portkey was Voldie didnt want anyone to know he was back. If harry got killed from just an ordinary portkey, disappeared, etc it would be obvious who was behind it. By having him die in the maze, it would look like he died by some other reason than the portkey. People wouldnt expect Voldie behind it then

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what??

no matter what, if voldie's plan works, harry just dissapears.



The maze wouldnt be, like, permanent. They would all be like "wtf.. where is harry?" an hour later.

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Harry wasn't going to disappear. His dead body would have been sent back to the maze using the portkey.

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Aside from problems

1. There is no direct cannon evidence to suggest the plan was to send him back and

2. The logistical problems of porting back just a dead body (how to get them to touch the key without touching it youself, and how they hold on to it during flight (the books are inconsistent here, since it appears sometimes holding on is necessary and other times it isnt))

this still leaves a pretty gaping problem:

3. The key was setup to return OUTSIDE of the maze, at the feet of dumbledore.


If Im voldemort, I think Harry's death seems a lot less suspicious I just have him ported to me in the middle of the night, kill him, then drop his body in the forrest for the animals to eat for a while, then have moody "discover" him, than if I had to trick a powerful goblet and then have Harry magically appears dead at Dumbledore's feet (though its quite a bit to assume the idea was to appear at DDs feet, the key WASNT going back into the maze)



Pretty much all responses that try to fix this hole tend to make a lot of assumptions, and sort of rest on a "what if this, this and this were true?" situation.

Obviously, if there were protections around Hogwarts that prevented portkeys from being used on the grounds, except by dumbledore and in the specific situation of the triwizard tournament, then, yeah, of course the plan makes more sense, but its Rowling's job to tell us that. She didnt. Its probably the biggest hole in the series, but it made for a fun story. Its no worse than a bond villian. But, it is a hole.

[Leaky Eye]

I don't see a problem. Why would Voldemort want Harry's death to be less suspicious? He would want it to be a widely known unsolved mystery. There would be no proof of anything, just a lot of speculation and fear. Pretty much his MO.

[CallMeIshmael]

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I don't see a problem. Why would Voldemort want Harry's death to be less suspicious? He would want it to be a widely known unsolved mystery. There would be no proof of anything, just a lot of speculation and fear. Pretty much his MO.

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Well, if we hold the opinion that Voldy wants a widespread mystery, then why not have Harry touch some random object, port him to Voldy, kill him, and leave his body somewhere around hogwwarts instead of going to absurd amounts of effort?

Its much easier than doing what they did, and doesnt have the problems of Harry possibly dying or not winning the tournament (even though it was rigged, there was still a chance either would happen)