The American "Obesity Epidemic?"

[SmileyEH]

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-eat balanced based on the body's intuitive mechanisms

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This is so horribly horrible wrong. We are not evolved to intuitively decide to eat 3 donuts and a mocha latte, or to decide between burger king, mcdonalds, and KFC. On the extreme end of the scale look at native peoples in N. America. They've evolved a digestive system to handle a diet extremely high in fats and protein. I've been to reservations and EVERYONE is fat, and none of them have teeth because of their diet which consists primarily of HFCS. Diabetes rates of the reserve populations is 5 times the national average.

And personally, if I ate only when I'm hungry I would be on the dangerous skinny end of the bell curve you talk about.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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I don't think anyone who vastly improved their physical appearance through diet and exercise would ever say that they wouldn't go back through it.

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you're observation doesn't generalize across time and cultures

it's only because of a perverse obsession this culture has that these psychological factors are becoming so important


I refuse to evaluate myself on the body images that most the culture uses considering the ugly basis for these things.

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WTF? Thats exactly my point. Your generalizations don't hold across cultures/people. Each person should be able to decide for themselves what they can or cannot do. Being physically better looking is like being richer. You gain utility. People have to decide if they are able to trade out a few hamburgers each week and gain utils or if they'd be happier being fat. Or perhaps they are unwilling to look at longterm gain in happiness for short term gratification as is the case in most addictions.

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wow...you should read the happiness research as well

hint: good-looking and money are highly overrated

[MyTurn2Raise]

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-eat balanced based on the body's intuitive mechanisms

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This is so horribly horrible wrong. We are not evolved to intuitively decide to eat 3 donuts and a mocha latte, or to decide between burger king, mcdonalds, and KFC. On the extreme end of the scale look at native peoples in N. America. They've evolved a digestive system to handle a diet extremely high in fats and protein. I've been to reservations and EVERYONE is fat, and none of them have teeth because of their diet which consists primarily of HFCS. Diabetes rates of the reserve populations is 5 times the national average.

And personally, if I ate only when I'm hungry I would be on the dangerous skinny end of the bell curve you talk about.

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are they still physically active?
how has their longevity been?

[kidcolin]

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There is no proof that those once overweight will see huge longevity benefits from losing the weight, so of course I'm not conceding that. Most research suggests the exact opposite.


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There's a ton of research , albeit not on humans, about caloric restrictions increasing life spans. Furthermore, the long life expectancy of the Japanese has always in part been credited to their low-fat, healthy diet. And I don't know why you're bringing up the life expectancy point anyway.

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-eat balanced based on the body's intuitive mechanisms

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As blarg pointed out, this is assuming too much. Bodies can be conditioned. Our view of "eating balanced" can become warped as one's relationship with food as it relates to pleasure changes. We can go years following our intuitive mechanism down a bumpy dead end road before we realize changes are necessary. That's when a large percentage of obese people try fad diets and fail within a year.

[Thremp]

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hint: good-looking and money are highly overrated

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This is what fat poor people say to make themselves feel better about not being rish and McSexy.

I'd certainly feel better right now if someone doubled my monthly income and improved my quasi-Adonis like body to full blown Adonis.

[SmileyEH]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-eat balanced based on the body's intuitive mechanisms

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so horribly horrible wrong. We are not evolved to intuitively decide to eat 3 donuts and a mocha latte, or to decide between burger king, mcdonalds, and KFC. On the extreme end of the scale look at native peoples in N. America. They've evolved a digestive system to handle a diet extremely high in fats and protein. I've been to reservations and EVERYONE is fat, and none of them have teeth because of their diet which consists primarily of HFCS. Diabetes rates of the reserve populations is 5 times the national average.

And personally, if I ate only when I'm hungry I would be on the dangerous skinny end of the bell curve you talk about.

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are they still physically active?
how has their longevity been?

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You simply can't be healthy on a diet of doritos, white bread, pop, and candy regardless of your level of physical activity.

Their life expectancy is about 6 years lower than the national average. But again, there is more to health than life expectancy. Someone that lives to 60 and dies of a heart attack while hiking in the rockies is imo healthier than someone that lives to 80 and dies after having hip replacement, diabetes, and forced to use a walker for the last 20 years of their life.

[Thremp]

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-eat balanced based on the body's intuitive mechanisms

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This is so horribly horrible wrong. We are not evolved to intuitively decide to eat 3 donuts and a mocha latte, or to decide between burger king, mcdonalds, and KFC. On the extreme end of the scale look at native peoples in N. America. They've evolved a digestive system to handle a diet extremely high in fats and protein. I've been to reservations and EVERYONE is fat, and none of them have teeth because of their diet which consists primarily of HFCS. Diabetes rates of the reserve populations is 5 times the national average.

And personally, if I ate only when I'm hungry I would be on the dangerous skinny end of the bell curve you talk about.

[/ QUOTE ]


are they still physically active?
how has their longevity been?

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You simply can't be healthy on a diet of doritos, white bread, pop, and candy regardless of your level of physical activity.

Their life expectancy is about 6 years lower than the national average. But again, there is more to health than life expectancy. Someone that lives to 60 and dies of a heart attack while hiking in the rockies is imo healthier than someone that lives to 80 and dies after having hip replacement, diabetes, and forced to use a walker for the last 20 years of their life.

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Quality of life... FTW. Contracting betes' is probably the worst thing that you can do for your quality of life (though you'll keep your [censored] feet unless you're poor or a moran) which is directly correlated to being a fat bastard. I don't really see the fat bastard argument at all.

Primary sourceaments

[kidcolin]

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hint: good-looking and money are highly overrated

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This is what fat poor people say to make themselves feel better about not being rish and McSexy.

I'd certainly feel better right now if someone doubled my monthly income and improved my quasi-Adonis like body to full blown Adonis.

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meh, I agree with mt2r on this one. I've known a whole slew of rich hotties, both male and female, who were completely miserable and pretty bad at life in general.

However, there's a degree of utility depending on where you're at. If you're 10lbs overweight and happy and still getting laid, and if you don't enjoy busting your ass and putting down your weekly in n out burger, then those 10 extra pounds won't do much for you. But going from slovenly fat ass to respectable is a huge gain. Research that suggests wealth and looks aren't as important as UsWeekly makes it out to be (duh) doesn't make it a viable excuse to be a fat ass.

[FlyWf]

MT2R- Just to be absolutely clear to make sure that nobody is putting words in your mouth, would it be accurate to restate your thesis as:

"Being active and eating "right" have no/very little relation to a given's individual weight, and furthermore neither eating "right" nor obesity have any relation to quality and/or expected length of a given life."?

Eating right being this forum's consensus(typical meal of grilled chicken over brown rice with steamed vegetables, water to drink).

[MyTurn2Raise]

NO

my argument is that everyone gets way too fixated on weight and body shape and whatnot

people should
1) not smoke
2) don't abuse alcohol and other drugs
3) exercise regularly
4) eat healthy, but not subject to a rigorous, hardcore methodology


I'm trying to combat weight loss = healthiness

Body weight correlation to diseases completely losses its relevance when variables such as exercise time and intensity are included

I saw alot of anti-fat and encouraging weight-loss sentiment in this thread and I find that to be a very harmful and outdated sentiment


On the whole--diet and excercise patterns are not different among the thin, normal, overweight, and obese
People just come from different genetics


I saw the thread were there seemed to be alot of criticism over a guy having 1 32oz soda a day when he was 5'9" and 161 lbs. I know that is only one example, but it seems to me that it's a unhealthy approach to food to get on the guy about the one coke. If he was having teeth or gastrointestinal issues, I would be against the coke. Otherwise, seemed to be A ok and to be worried about it seems to be an unhealthy approach to eating.

I'm not excusing people for doing absolutely nothing but sitting on their couch all day or for making every meal a supersized big mac meal, be they thin or fat. I just think that looking at the thinness or fatness of someone and judging them is very wrong. We should look at whether they eat mainly healthy and workout. More and more studies show body size and weight are not the factors that one wants to control.

I talk with Thremp on AIM alot. He knows my favorite, nearly daily meal is grilled chicken over brown rice w/turmeric seasoning and broccoli. I eat lots of turkey and avocado sandwiches. I love the quaker oats lean banana bread and maple oatmeal (oatmeals with more protein and just a touch of sugar). I munch on berries and almonds daily. I eat mainly healthy and suggest others do like so. However, I don't feel the least bit guilty about getting a big mac meal with a coke, eating some deep dish Chicago style pizza, or having a couple of bowls of Lucky Charms a few times per week. I've seen the 10% cheat rule. I, personally, think it's a bit restrictive and strongly disagree with the labeling 'cheat.'

I want long-term positive goals for the health and quality of life of this country. I don't see preaching weight loss and anti-fatness treatment achieving that. I see it as an akin to a new form of racism.

Encourage full, healthy living.
Don't encourage weight loss and ideal body types.