STTF SNG->cash thread

[MadScientist]

Actually, Josem, I think we are often behind after this turn. Villain will have an overpair, two pair, a set, or a flush in that order very often here.
I think we check behind on the turn because we are often behind and need help so we take a free card looking for a straight or set. Even if the board pairs, it improves our equity as it counterfeits two pair hands. Those two pair hands that boat up we were behind any way.
If a fourth diamond comes, we should give up. If a big card comes and opp leads into us, I would tend to give up to a pot size bet. However, to a half pot size bet because of pot odds and the fact that a lot of hands in villains range are like 35, 45, 65, A5, I would call a bet.
BTW, Karp, if you had a READ this hand would play a whole lot easier. Like if villain could have any 5, it would much easier to just keep betting until we hit resistance.
Alternately, if villain was a set miner, we would give up unimproved after the flop (but we still def bet flop).

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, Josem, I think we are often behind after this turn

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know if we are behind or ahead - but wouldn't my reasoning make it acceptable to bet even if we are behind?

If we are behind, then we're putting in money:
a) in a bet size chosen by us
b) where we still might have some fold equity
c) and in a fashion that gives us information - if we get called, we know we are certainly are behind on the river.



if we are behind and...

1a) bet - we'll get called and now know we're behind. thus, no more putting money in, and we'll benefit on the river from not putting any bad money in. it is also possible that a hand like 99 or TT might fold to the turn.

1b) check - opponent is likely to bet river, and we won't know if we're paying off a better hand or calling a worse one. thus, we'll lose money to the fundamental theorem of poker.


if are ahead and...

2a) bet, we'll get value

2b) check, we'll lose value. futher, villain will be more likely to bet the river, and we may sometimes get bluffed off the worst hand.



the advantage in betting the turn, is that we choose the bet sizes, instead of letting opponent choose (ie, in 1a and 2b)


does this make sense?

[suzzer99]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($50)
MP ($72.85)
Hero ($51.55)
Button ($103.80)
SB ($30.45)
BB ($52.40)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $2.50, Hero calls $2.50.

Flop: ($9.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $20</font>, UTG folds, Hero?

Just call me bill the butcher. Both villians were like 27/15 or something and hadn't gotten too out of line.

[DevinLake]

Raise the first time. You could probably fold the second time, but I guess with UTG calling your priced it.

flop: I play it like you did.

Edit: I thought you folded to the flop raise. I'd fold the the raise from the pfr.

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero calls $0.50,

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's your first mistake. If you raised it in the frist place, you avoid a heap of trouble later on when the pot is bigger.



Come the point marked at "Hero?" it seems to be a clear fold - no preflop raiser makes a flop raise over a bet and a call without beating top pair. it's not as if he's drawing. I think flat calling the UTG bet is fine, as although you're ahead of UTG's range, there's no point putting in more money with a relatively weak hand ahead of the PFR.

[jgunnip]

ATs is a raising hand there in fact there's not a single hand I'd play there for a limp. Raise to take advantage of your position by forcing people to play raised pots OOP.

Flop is a fold to the reraise. I think its safe to say you're way behind his range at this point.

[K䲰䮥n]

[ QUOTE ]

BTW, Karp, if you had a READ this hand would play a whole lot easier. Like if villain could have any 5, it would much easier to just keep betting until we hit resistance.
Alternately, if villain was a set miner, we would give up unimproved after the flop (but we still def bet flop).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to sound like a douché especially since you guys are helping me out a great deal but I do say he's loose/passive.

[K䲰䮥n]

Somebody [censored] shoot me I'm [censored] worthless at ring games. I have lost all of my confidence and I'm bleeding money. -16 BIs this month. And it's [censored] 8th.

Couple of hands from today:

Villain is 28/10/4 but open raises like 90% despite of his position.


Seat 1: Wardancer ( $44.95 )
Seat 3: Firetribe ( $54.50 )
Seat 5: Lemur86 ( $48.50 )
Seat 6: HiTMoonweed ( $57.40 )
Seat 8: boomer21071964 ( $10.25 )
Seat 10: saan23 ( $60.05 )
boomer21071964 posts Small Blind $0.25
saan23 posts Big Blind $0.50

Dealing cards
Your cards A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [Firetribe]
Wardancer raises $2
Firetribe raises $6.75
Lemur86 folds
HiTMoonweed folds
boomer21071964 folds
saan23 folds
Wardancer calls $4.75

Dealing Flop A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Wardancer checks
Firetribe checks
<font color="blue">wa/wb so Hero checks</font>

Dealing Turn K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Wardancer bets $8
Firetribe calls $8
<font color="blue">Trying to keep the pot as small as possible or something. And value calling. Maybe?</font>

Dealing River J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Wardancer checks
Firetribe bets $10.25
<font color="blue">value? </font>




OK, Hand #2

I actually have a note on him that says "miniraises cbets with air". What I dont know is how he plays his made hands or draws. Villain is 28/12/4 over 60 hands.


Seat 1: Firetribe ( $52.10 )
Seat 3: mensa62 ( $49 )
Seat 5: srfksfhk ( $57.50 )
Seat 6: suppegunners ( $57.66 )
Seat 8: ragusa ( $10.50 )
Seat 10: Cush11 ( $34.35 )
mensa62 posts Small Blind $0.25
srfksfhk posts Big Blind $0.50
Dealing cards

Your cards J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [Firetribe]
suppegunners calls $0.50
ragusa folds
Cush11 folds
Firetribe raises $2.25
mensa62 folds
srfksfhk folds
suppegunners calls $1.75

Dealing Flop Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
suppegunners checks
Firetribe bets $4.75
suppegunners raises $9.50
Firetribe's plan?

[PokahPokah]

i raise to like 20 with your read

[K䲰䮥n]

[ QUOTE ]
i raise to like 20 with your read

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you mean hand #2?