9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction?

[AquaSwing]

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Eye witnesses state there was a line of UPS and FTD flower deliverers backed up waiting for elevators, proving the elevator shortage. These are not just any eyewitnesses, these are sworn depositions. At least that's what I heard.

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This is the best of all threads about 9/11. Good job.

[jono]

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It would be awesome if someone built a recreated WTC in New Mexico or something, and we could then slam a 767 into it again, and see what happens. Would solve everything.

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I dont understand all these posts about "withstanding the impact of blah blah blah". It wasn't a case of impact toppling the towers, it was the resulting fire. It doesnt matter if it was designed to withstand the impact of an A380.

Prior threads have a complete analysis of the engineering of the main towers and the damage that caused WTC7 to come down.

And I love the "Silverstein had insurance and made a ton of money" arguments. Someone doesnt understand commercial real estate insurance.

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Larry Silverstein, the president of Silverstein Properties, only uses $14 million of his own money for the deal. His partners put up a further $111 million, and banks provide $563 million in loans. [Brill, 2003, pp. 156] The Port Authority had carried only $1.5 billion in insurance coverage on all its buildings, including the WTC, but Silverstein’s lenders insist on more, eventually demanding $3.55 billion in cover. [American Lawyer, 9/3/2002] After 9/11, Larry Silverstein will claim the attacks on the World Trade Center constituted two separate events, thereby entitling him to a double payout totaling over $7 billion.

[jono]

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I dont understand all these posts about "withstanding the impact of blah blah blah". It wasn't a case of impact toppling the towers, it was the resulting fire. It doesnt matter if it was designed to withstand the impact of an A380.

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Copernicus,
I'm just curious how many high rise buildings in the history of high rise buildings have collapsed due to fire? (besides the supposed 9/11 obv)

[Josem]

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I'm just curious how many high rise buildings in the history of high rise buildings have collapsed due to fire? (besides the supposed 9/11 obv)

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every single building that has had a fire that was the result of large volumes of highly flammable jet fuel burning at very high temperatures for a long period of time has collapsed.

[AquaSwing]

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I'm just curious how many high rise buildings in the history of high rise buildings have collapsed due to fire? (besides the supposed 9/11 obv)

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Zero.

How many high rise buildings in the history of high rise buildings that were struck by fully fueled jumbo jets traveling at high rates of speed have collapsed due to fire?

Two.

Please stop asking that question.

[DcifrThs]

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I dont understand all these posts about "withstanding the impact of blah blah blah". It wasn't a case of impact toppling the towers, it was the resulting fire. It doesnt matter if it was designed to withstand the impact of an A380.

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Copernicus,
I'm just curious how many high rise buildings in the history of high rise buildings have collapsed due to fire? (besides the supposed 9/11 obv)

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if you are planning to use this question (if answered in the negative) as support for the argument that the twin towers couldn't have been brought down by fire, then you are evidence of what i mentioned earlier: that conspiracy theorists tend to be worse logical thinkers.

on sept 1 1987, you coulda found tons of people willing to bet against the proposition that the stock market would fall by 22% in one day.

all models and estimations would put that event at 1 in 10^33 times.

Barron

[Richard Tanner]

Anyone else get this little irony?

Person A: Well there are holes in the "official" story. Jet fuel and such, it just seems like there isn't a complete record of everything that's happend so it's a government cover-up.
Niels: I agree, that lack of information proves there's a conspiracy.

Person B: Well the fossil record isn't complete, and certainly we can't see every step of evolution yet, it just seems like there isn't a complete record of everything that's happend so there must be a God.
Niels: I disagree, that lack of information only proves we don't know everything.

Theorists (many of whom fall in the avowed atheist catagory) seem to be highly selective of which things they take on faith and which they don't. Seems odd to me.

Don't forget, what we have here is a lack of information in some areas, not proof that an insidious conspiracy took place. Believe whatever you choose but remember that our minds are tricky things and the deck is already stack against us mentally to accept inequality in ideas. Again, a lack of evidence is not evidence itself.

Cody

[LongRedHair]

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. If you read a lot of the conspiracy sites they have all kinds of "evidence" on them, their problem is that it's all being covered up by what has to be 1000's of different people so they can't prove their "evidence" to the people that have been "brainwashed by the goverment" into beliving the official story.

[LockLow34]

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By the way, here's an excerpt from a guide to dealing with homicide that I quickly Googled. It jives more closely with how I believe I would react to the loss of a loved one. And I'm quite confident that if the situation really did occur, I would feel no differently.

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<font color="blue"> The police may try to shield family members, keeping them away from the crime scene
and from gruesome photographs of the victim. Nevertheless, many survivors demand to
see these things. They want to confront the reality of the murder and to know the worst.
Denied access to the facts by the authorities or by a lack of information about the crime,
the relatives of murder victims are frequently tormented by questions that can never be
answered. </font> http://www.crcvc.ca/docs/homsurv.pdf

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A quick Google shows plenty more anecdotal cases of family members demanding the truth following a tragedy. Pat Tillman's mother is but one recent high-profile example.

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I know I'm a bit late to the party here, but I wanted to corroborate this bit. My ex-wife worked as a victim advocate for crime victims. She said on more than a few occasions that families want to know as much detail as possible when a horrific crime has occurred.

[LockLow34]

Oh, and one more thing.

Doesn't anyone consider the manpower it would take to wire these buildings to explode? You're talking several demolition teams working simultaneously for days and perhaps weeks on end. This isn't a movie set, where you can just explode a stick or two of dynamite and down come the buildings. This is real life, where things are a lot more complicated.

Oh, and the demo teams, that means at least 100 or more people in on the conspiracy. Remember, you're dealing with HUMANS here, not robots. Conspiracies this big are going to fail because of this. Humans make mistakes, humans get drunk and egotistical and brag about their role in some big secret. Humans are fallible and conspiracies crack because of this. Except you haven't seen that here, which means it's very likely it wasn't a conpsiracy.

One last point...knowing what you know now about the Bush administration, do you REALLY think he'd have the wherewithall to orchestrate an attack like that? Haven't they proven their incompetency so thoroughly that to think they could carry out an extremely sophisticated plan like a 9/11 conspiracy is laughable in the extreme?