The official NETELLER thread. (First 40 days.) #1 of 2.

[gone.flying]

Some things to think about:

1. Even IF NT wanted to return money to the US customers, it no longer has the infrastructure to manage this - they've let most of the North American (Calgary) staff go. But do they really want to return that money quickly? imho not a chance.

2. Remember that the company is being run almost in camera at this time by its' executive officers who draw down nice salaries - they have surely resigned themselves to the fact that their share options are now worthless - there is thus little impetus for them to resolve things quickly. The stock isn't trading so even institutional shareholders can't apply the usual pressure. There is nothing whatsoever to indicate that there is any internal or external pressure on NT to resolve the situation quickly (and by quickly I'd count anything within the next 6 months as extremely quick) for the US guys.

3. Keep a CLOSE eye on NetBanx - it's a legitimate and very valuable NT subsidiary - if Netbanx is sold.....

[Mike Haven]

I guess it's all in how you read the content of that Release. Obviously, everything that was discussed isn't relayed, word for word, and the reader has to make assumptions.

I have assumed that the reason Neteller hasn't released the money is because the DOJ has told them not to, and that if they do, before the DOJ's investigations are completed to a satisfactory extent, the legal consequences, fines, etc, will be worse on Neteller.

You appear to assume the USAO doesn't mind if Neteller returns the money, and that they only seized the $55m for something to do. Why don't you ask the USAO if they have no problem with Neteller paying you your money? Please let us see their response, here, before you forward it to Neteller.

*

Clues in the Release, towards my assumptions:

In that meeting, the Group pledged to cooperate with the USAO, indicated it was prepared to begin document production promptly and discussed a potential mechanism for arranging an orderly repayment of funds to US customers.

The discussions between the Group’s legal advisers and the USAO are ongoing.

As a result of the restrictions placed by third parties, court-ordered seizures, and related legal concerns, the Group is currently unable to make payments to US customers.

Nevertheless, the Group is in discussions with the USAO to manage an orderly return of funds to US customers.

As part of these discussions, it is contemplated that the USAO will engage a forensic accounting firm, at the Group’s expense, to assist in this process ...

“The return of funds to our US customers is a top priority for NETELLER” said Ron Martin, Group President and CEO.

US customers wishing to withdraw funds from their NETELLER e-wallet accounts will experience ongoing delays while these discussions continue, and a further update will be provided by the Group once effective repayment mechanisms are determined.

... there can be no assurance that the Group will not be charged in a criminal action at some subsequent time.

It is emphasized that in line with the Group’s standard business practices for all customers, funds held by the Group for US customers are held in segregated trust accounts.

... the Group currently has sufficient working capital to fund all its customers’ balances as well as ongoing requirements of the business.

Further announcements will be made as appropriate.

[Mike Haven]

I omitted to include the final part of their Release, earlier:

[ QUOTE ]
NETELLER remains committed to developing its business in line with its stated strategic objectives including geographical and product diversification for all markets. The Group will focus on its continuing business and the opportunities available in the growing markets of Europe, Asia and the Americas outside of the United States. Since the Group’s withdrawal from the US market on 18 January 2007, average daily new account sign-ups of new customers from non-US markets has been around 1,400. This compares to average daily sign ups of 3,303 for the year to 31 December 2006. Daily fee revenue since 18 January 2007 has averaged over US$ 200,000 per day (excluding any revenues from Netbanx, 1-Pay and interest income). These metrics demonstrate the resilience of the Group's ongoing business. NETELLER customers not resident in the US continue to be minimally affected by this withdrawal from the US market.



[/ QUOTE ]

$200,000 per day = $73,000,000 per year, fee revenue.

That would keep me interested in resolving things as quickly as possible, so that the ROW didn't lose too much confidence in my company.

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
In that meeting, the Group pledged to cooperate with the USAO, indicated it was prepared to begin document production promptly and discussed a potential mechanism for arranging an orderly repayment of funds to US customers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Says nothing, really.

[ QUOTE ]
The discussions between the Group’s legal advisers and the USAO are ongoing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, no content.

[ QUOTE ]
As a result of the restrictions placed by third parties, court-ordered seizures, and related legal concerns, the Group is currently unable to make payments to US customers.

[/ QUOTE ]

"restrictions placed by third parties" is ACHs bailing, "court ordered seizures" is $55m, making "related legal concernes" the only reason left that they are not able to pay Americans. Translation: they are scared and holding the money until they are safe.

[ QUOTE ]
Nevertheless, the Group is in discussions with the USAO to manage an orderly return of funds to US customers.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think that means? Maybe these discussions are "Release the founders, drop all charges, and let us do our business and *then* we'll release the funds." Nothing here indicating that USAO is, in any way, preventing payouts.

[ QUOTE ]
As part of these discussions, it is contemplated that the USAO will engage a forensic accounting firm, at the Group’s expense, to assist in this process ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, forensic accounting firm will know about the transaction no matter if money is at NETeller or in US customer's hands.

[ QUOTE ]
“The return of funds to our US customers is a top priority for NETELLER” said Ron Martin, Group President and CEO.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL Pressreleaseaments. His lips are moving.

[ QUOTE ]
US customers wishing to withdraw funds from their NETELLER e-wallet accounts will experience ongoing delays while these discussions continue, and a further update will be provided by the Group once effective repayment mechanisms are determined.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Once we are 100% off the hook we will then give you your money back."

What do you read?

[ QUOTE ]
... there can be no assurance that the Group will not be charged in a criminal action at some subsequent time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep.

[ QUOTE ]
It is emphasized that in line with the Group’s standard business practices for all customers, funds held by the Group for US customers are held in segregated trust accounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Immaterial to this argument.

[ QUOTE ]
... the Group currently has sufficient working capital to fund all its customers’ balances as well as ongoing requirements of the business.

[/ QUOTE ]

A good thing, but again immaterial.

[ QUOTE ]
Further announcements will be made as appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good.




I guess its all interpretive.

But as such, there's no way you can claim this press release as proof the feds are holding US customer's money and not NETeller. The release is vague, and I expect intentionally so.

Yeah, my government sucks. Not gunna argue that. But calling NETeller a innocent victim/bystander in this is stoopid. They get a lot of benefit by holding the money - leverage against the DOJ and revenue from interest. They are complicit.

[Phanekim]

I'm a simpleton, but can i ask a quite simple question guys?

How long will it be until I can get the remainder of my neteller money out?

[KurtSF]

No one knows. We're all trying read tea leaves.

[Mike Haven]

I was funning with you. You're right. You're screwed.

Don't forget to let us see the USAO's response to your question, though. That'll prove your point to any doubters still left out there.

[gone.flying]

[ QUOTE ]
I omitted to include the final part of their Release, earlier:

[ QUOTE ]
NETELLER remains committed to developing its business in line with its stated strategic objectives including geographical and product diversification for all markets. The Group will focus on its continuing business and the opportunities available in the growing markets of Europe, Asia and the Americas outside of the United States. Since the Group’s withdrawal from the US market on 18 January 2007, average daily new account sign-ups of new customers from non-US markets has been around 1,400. This compares to average daily sign ups of 3,303 for the year to 31 December 2006. Daily fee revenue since 18 January 2007 has averaged over US$ 200,000 per day (excluding any revenues from Netbanx, 1-Pay and interest income). These metrics demonstrate the resilience of the Group's ongoing business. NETELLER customers not resident in the US continue to be minimally affected by this withdrawal from the US market.



[/ QUOTE ]

$200,000 per day = $73,000,000 per year, fee revenue.

That would keep me interested in resolving things as quickly as possible, so that the ROW didn't lose too much confidence in my company.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes 73 big ones in my pocket might focus my attention lol
but that $73m (and do remember that it's a projection) belongs to the shareholders - the mechanism that the company employs to motivate officers and employees is via stock options. No market = worthless options & the markets have the memory of elephants - they won't forgive or forget.

The goose 'au plat' may be well-done or medium-rare, but it will be cooked.

[KurtSF]

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Mike Haven.

Wasn't the $55m seized as part of the sports-betting case, and has nothing to do with the case against the founders which precipitated most of this brouhaha?

I too would be curious to hear from the USAO about their stance on this. I got my money out (barely and at a price). Anyone with stuck money want to write them and ask if they have a problem with NETeller making good to US customers?

[kiemo]

While no cashout options are available to US persons, can a US person transfer their funds to other non-US Neteller members? Or does the money frozen clause really mean completely frozen?