"Jesus" advises Yang to stiff dealers?

[PITTM]

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p,

"Next, we do not get paid by the hour this year, we get paid by downs (each table we deal), we do get an hourly $6.41 from harrahs."

"means that we should only recieve $214 for 11 days of work? Hmmm that doesnt sound to good to me."

"Now We started the main this year with over 700 dealers"

OK, so let's work out the math here.

There were 700 dealers involved in dealing during the 11 days of the ME.

These dealers split the following:

Hourly rate of $6.41
$60,000,000 * 1.8% * 65% = $702,000
Tips when dealing cash games
Additional tip pool from other tourneys during this time

So, a dealer who dealt 8 hours a day over these 11 days would make about $1565 [$564 ($6.41 * 8 * 11) + $1,000 (700k/700)] PLUS tips they received while dealing at cash games.

Is that correct, p? Please correct the assumptions regarding how many downs the average dealer dealt in tournament and cash games.

The way many reasonable posters on this forum approach this issue is to think about whether or not the dealers are getting paid a fair wage when all things are taken into account.

The numbers make it look like dealers are getting paid far more than the $214 you thought you would get paid, more like in the $1500-2000 range.

Do you feel like the actual numbers are fair compensation for this period? If not, what would you consider reasonable compensation to expect for dealing the WSOP?

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I have yet to see this forum used for anything but a bunch of mud slinging bull crap. and read things correctly instead of just trying to piss me off. figure it out your damm self because from what i have seen here, the stuff y'all make up is so much better than the truth.
and dont bother trying to egg me on any further cause i will never pull up the site again.
Y'all have won the race

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Steps to profit:
1. claim you were "stiffed" in long winded internet forum post
2. provide no real evidence beyond hearsay
3. insult everyone who disagrees with you
4. insult people who provide math based on what you have said
5. gush about how nice the player who stiffed you was to seem less whiney/ungrateful.

the behavior of these dealers gets worse and worse every year. the sense of entitlement is atrocious.
6. call everyone you wrote the post to an idiot.

[pkrporcupine]

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pkrp: If we as players have no idea whether you are underpaid or overpaid, how can we make an informed decision as to whether or not to tip beyond what is withheld? Some people have estimated about 10,000 dealer hours. I just did a quick guesstimate at 6000hrs for Day 1, 2000 hours for Day 2, 700 hours for Day 3, and less than that each of the other days. If it's 10,000 hours total and the tip pool for dealers was $700,000, that's $70/hr in tips. If a dealer gets 6 hours of work for 5 days during that period, that's $2100 in tips alone, plus $200-300 from Harrah's (depending on who you believe). A dealer who deals 6-hours each of the 11 days would make over $5000 for the ME. Plus pay and tips for any cash games they deal. Players simply want to understand the real numbers in play here before making tipping decisions.

N: Doesn't matter. The only relevant number to tournament players is how much money it takes to get good dealers to come out and deal the tournaments. I'd assume that dealers would take into account all relevant expenses involved before stating a figure that makes it attractive to them.

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i completely understand where you are coming from so please try and understand the position i am in too. i will tell you tho that the hours worked is not the meat of the equation. the 6.41/hour is handled by harrahs. dealers are getting paid for total tournament (ME and extra tourneys) tables worked from 7/6 to 7/17. The total withholding from all events 7/6 to 7/17 for the dealers, all tournament side tokes that are specified for dealers all go into one bucket. The toke commitee will then add up the total tourney downs and come up with the ammount per down, lets just say it will be $30 per down. my roomate was sent home on day 5 with a total of 38 downs (They claimed she had a high ammount so she was done). so her pay will be 38 downs x $30 = $1140 plus her hourly which is 56 x $6.41=$358.90 for a gross total $1498.90. then uncle sam takes his part. if a dealer was lucky to get into the cash game rotation when they were told they had too many downs, then that cash goes straight into their pocket.
I hope you understand how it is done now.

[RR]

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... I was in the payout room with Jerry as a representative for the dealers....

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huh? Perhaps someone could explain what 'dealers interests' she was representing in the payout room. I mean, Yang wins, yeehaw, praise the lord(literally), congratulations all around, presentations, photo ops, and then Yang, along with CF as his advisor, enters the payout room to be met with... the dealer from the final table? Was she there to hand over the cash/check/chips? Was she there attempting some sort of moral suasion, sublte pressure for an extra tip, or was she there to make sure Harrahs didn't pocket any extra tip that he might inadventantly offer?

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A dealer is always present when a touranment it paid out to make sure that the people receiving the money don't pocket tips that were meant for the dealers. I can list a number of times a dealer wasn't presetn to protect the dealers, but I will just mention two. The Plaza in the late 90s would hold WSOP satellites (along with other tournaments); their TD (I forget his name but I would recognize it in a moment if someone told me what it was) would pocket all tips that were given to him in private and any that were given to him in the open if witnesses didn't specifically hear the player say "this is for the dealers." Whenever he coudl he paid in private so he could take all the tokes that were meant for the dealers. Another case was one I came on board very late and the internal controls had already been written for the players to get paid at the cage. They cage handed them their money and they tipped when handed the money and the cage felt it was a tip for them for paying rather than a tip to the dealers for dealing.

[pkrporcupine]

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p,

"Next, we do not get paid by the hour this year, we get paid by downs (each table we deal), we do get an hourly $6.41 from harrahs."

"means that we should only recieve $214 for 11 days of work? Hmmm that doesnt sound to good to me."

"Now We started the main this year with over 700 dealers"

OK, so let's work out the math here.

There were 700 dealers involved in dealing during the 11 days of the ME.

These dealers split the following:

Hourly rate of $6.41
$60,000,000 * 1.8% * 65% = $702,000
Tips when dealing cash games
Additional tip pool from other tourneys during this time

So, a dealer who dealt 8 hours a day over these 11 days would make about $1565 [$564 ($6.41 * 8 * 11) + $1,000 (700k/700)] PLUS tips they received while dealing at cash games.

Is that correct, p? Please correct the assumptions regarding how many downs the average dealer dealt in tournament and cash games.

The way many reasonable posters on this forum approach this issue is to think about whether or not the dealers are getting paid a fair wage when all things are taken into account.

The numbers make it look like dealers are getting paid far more than the $214 you thought you would get paid, more like in the $1500-2000 range.

Do you feel like the actual numbers are fair compensation for this period? If not, what would you consider reasonable compensation to expect for dealing the WSOP?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have yet to see this forum used for anything but a bunch of mud slinging bull crap. and read things correctly instead of just trying to piss me off. figure it out your damm self because from what i have seen here, the stuff y'all make up is so much better than the truth.
and dont bother trying to egg me on any further cause i will never pull up the site again.
Y'all have won the race

[/ QUOTE ]

Steps to profit:
1. claim you were "stiffed" in long winded internet forum post
2. provide no real evidence beyond hearsay
3. insult everyone who disagrees with you
4. insult people who provide math based on what you have said
5. gush about how nice the player who stiffed you was to seem less whiney/ungrateful.

the behavior of these dealers gets worse and worse every year. the sense of entitlement is atrocious.
6. call everyone you wrote the post to an idiot.

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I dare you to honestly ,without rewriting my posts, show me where i ever said that Jerry Y stiffed me or the dealers!
2. It is not hearsay when I was PHYSICALLY there is it?
3.I only insult the posters that have bashed me, misquoted or outright just acted like a child.
4.Yet again please read my OP. never argued the numbers just how CF stated a half truth.
5. I will gush over Jerry. He has more heart than all of you combined.
6. Hahahaha

[suzy89222]

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pkrp: If we as players have no idea whether you are underpaid or overpaid, how can we make an informed decision as to whether or not to tip beyond what is withheld? Some people have estimated about 10,000 dealer hours. I just did a quick guesstimate at 6000hrs for Day 1, 2000 hours for Day 2, 700 hours for Day 3, and less than that each of the other days. If it's 10,000 hours total and the tip pool for dealers was $700,000, that's $70/hr in tips. If a dealer gets 6 hours of work for 5 days during that period, that's $2100 in tips alone, plus $200-300 from Harrah's (depending on who you believe). A dealer who deals 6-hours each of the 11 days would make over $5000 for the ME. Plus pay and tips for any cash games they deal. Players simply want to understand the real numbers in play here before making tipping decisions.

N: Doesn't matter. The only relevant number to tournament players is how much money it takes to get good dealers to come out and deal the tournaments. I'd assume that dealers would take into account all relevant expenses involved before stating a figure that makes it attractive to them.

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i completely understand where you are coming from so please try and understand the position i am in too. i will tell you tho that the hours worked is not the meat of the equation. the 6.41/hour is handled by harrahs. dealers are getting paid for total tournament (ME and extra tourneys) tables worked from 7/6 to 7/17. The total withholding from all events 7/6 to 7/17 for the dealers, all tournament side tokes that are specified for dealers all go into one bucket. The toke commitee will then add up the total tourney downs and come up with the ammount per down, lets just say it will be $30 per down. my roomate was sent home on day 5 with a total of 38 downs (They claimed she had a high ammount so she was done). so her pay will be 38 downs x $30 = $1140 plus her hourly which is 56 x $6.41=$358.90 for a gross total $1498.90. then uncle sam takes his part. if a dealer was lucky to get into the cash game rotation when they were told they had too many downs, then that cash goes straight into their pocket.
I hope you understand how it is done now.

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that's the 2nd time you mentioned having to pay taxes. did you not know that everyone who is employed pays taxes?

[pkrporcupine]

do you ever have anything productive to say? or are you just so bitter that you feel the need to just needle? and go ahead and say some snide nasty reply, i expect it. you came into this thread putting down the job and co-workers that helped you get to where you are today. i hope that the dealers out there working hard to provide you with a smooth tournament, woking towards a goal to make the move from dealer to player, just as you have, see you as a role modle of how NOT to behave.

[suzy89222]

i appreciate professional dealers that dont whine about being underpaid. unfortunately, those are few and far between.

by the way, i knew you wouldnt stay away, lol.

you have still ignored a few questions.

[suzy89222]

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dealers complain they're under paid, but won't tell how much they're making

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exactly. stop complaining if you aren't willing to be upfront about how much you make. obviously dealers complain because they want the tipping culture to change/improve, yet how can they create change without showing that they are being paid unfairly.

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I NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT MY PAY OR SAID THAT I WAS BEING PAID UNFAIRLY
OMG do you even understand the english language???
I am highly unimpressed with the lack of intelligence found in this forum. I really hope that Harrahs and the PAB will bring on a rep for the dealers so this can be better for the players and staff next year

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if you aren't complaining, what needs to be better for the dealers next year?

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another good question for you to answer, p...

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this is one of them, and again, you did complain. "i should make a lot more", remember?

[suzy89222]

Do you feel like the actual numbers are fair compensation for this period? If not, what would you consider reasonable compensation to expect for dealing the WSOP?


another one for u...

[Photoc]

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Do you feel like the actual numbers are fair compensation for this period? If not, what would you consider reasonable compensation to expect for dealing the WSOP?


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Does it really matter what one person thinks is reasonable? When in reality, everyone in this world probably has a different view on what is reasonable and about the only thing answering that question will ever do is result into yet another flame war about who should and shouldn't make a living and how the number states "isn't fair" or "is unjustified for dealing". So really, what's the point?