Cheating in Online Poker

[Nez477]

Ya,

Pretty much everyone who ever says "We all know this" or "We've all done it" when it comes to these things is ridiculously immature and embarrasing

Like, do you really read our posts about cheating and just assume that we've done it too? I mean, does it make you feel better about yourself?

I think those that have multi-accounted and are denying it or nto admitting it or not outing those people that have, is, well... sad

There is a bottom lines here as far as I'm concerned

<u>Using two accounts in the same MTT is wrong... </u>I think 94% of player on 2+2 probably feel this way. That 6% that don't are in fact greedy, and actually don't care about online poker, they care about themselves only. That's fine for those people, I feel sorry for you, but whatever, greed happens. Just don't try and make it ok by saying 'everyone is doing it'.. because with all of the friends that I have on 2+2 I can honestly say none of them have multiaccounted, and if they are, they should be ashamed of themselves and I would be hurt by it

I mean, I say all this as an outsider looking in to a certain extent because i haven't really played in about a year, but

a) If you are cheating, cut it out, stop being a greedy douche and realize that your life will be fuller when you stop
b) If you know people that are cheating, stop enabling them
c) If you aren't cheating, then holla, don't listen to the stupid 'everyone is doing it' posts and assume that you need to start doing it to get by
d) Bastard

[NHFunkii]

wow this thread just exploded into like thirty different directions and some of them are absolutely hilarious
gotta say this is my new favorite post ever

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Off the shores of Manhattan is a symbol--a symbol of all that is right with the country--a symbol of liberty, of freedom, of hope. She boldly proclaims to all those entering this country, "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses."

She does not, however, invite the presence of cheats, of multiaccounters, of scoundrels. No where on that Statue does it read, "Give me your scam-artists, your con men, your men of disrepute." I would ask that you, Zee; and you, JJ; and the rest of you disrespecting that beautiful woman in the New York Harbor; I would ask that all of you think twice before you cheat this country, this game, this ideal. We are a nation of civilized men, and we expect you to act accordingly. Acting otherwise is not only a disgrace to you and your peers--it is a disgrace to Lady Liberty herself.

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also I dont believe JJ for a second.

[odellthurman]

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Using two accounts in the same MTT is wrong... </u>I think 94% of player on 2+2 probably feel this way.

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I think it is closer to 91%, but I don't want to split hairs.

[uclabruinz]

Well I just reported a well known 2p2er and multiple contributor to this thread for having multiple accounts on Stars, which he admits but denies multiaccounting. I hope more people will do the same. Unfortunately, I only knew two of his names, so I don't know how much help that will be to Stars regarding his other accounts.

You are allowed to have ONE account on Stars people. So if you have multiple accounts but deny multiaccounting, it looks pretty friggin' bad for you.

[uclabruinz]

You know who continues to upset me more then anyone? ActionJeff. Where is he in all this? He started it. He claims to have SPECIFIC knowledge about who has cheated. I would like to believe he is just quietly reporting everything he knows to Stars, but I doubt it.

[BAK]

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How many of you are actually against &lt;18 y/o's playing poker? Because if we seriously try and make an issue of this, we're fighting a losing battle. That's an issue for parents to monitor, not the sites. What way could they possibly regulate this?

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One simple way is to ask for SSN while registration.

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I don't see how this would possibly work.

Do you seriously think that the poker sites based in Costa Rico would be able to verify anything about their clients based on SSN? Granted, the US government is going to hell in a handbasket, but I cannot imagine that they would be regularly servicing requests from Pokerstars.

And, who in their right mind would give their SSN to an internet gambling site? Just because the casual poker players are not winning players for the most part, doesn't mean they are stupid.

[stealthmunk]

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um why would Justin (Schwartz) be jealous of Matt in any way relating to poker? Justin's better and he's made more money...

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yes he's made more but he doesn't and never had more or at any time an amount equal to what matt does. Stealth is better player but who cares that's what matters least when comparing the past/current. And ignoring future earning expectations.

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um why would Justin (Schwartz) be jealous of Matt in any way relating to poker? Justin's better and he's made more money...

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Has he though? Minus backing minus degen gambling? This is an honest question.

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I have no clue how this thread veered to this but I refuse to even comment on this. I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST MLAGOO. I just bring his thing up as an example because they clearly admitted to having "More than one player to a hand" which I clearly already stated and know ISNT A VIOLATION OF A RULE.


I talk to my friends about hands wihle I play poker all the time. I partake in that same practice that you guys think I'm ripping mlaggo for. I even admitted to staking weak players in some of the most +EV tourneys just hoping that if they get deep I can coach them through the end game. I'm not [censored] hating/ripping on mlagoo and i don't see how this jealousy/bankroll has any relevance to this thread.

[BarryLyndon]

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will someone out somebody already?

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I don't think I understand why people in this thread who seem to know (or at least suspect) who is cheating don't step and do something about it. Say "I don't want to rat the person out" or "Well, I have no proof, so what can I do?" but you know that both of those statements are cop outs. Anybody who cheats us in tourney is not somebody who should be protected. Also, what is the harm in firing off emails to security/support of the poker sites with your accusations? What's the worst that could happen? Them tell you that they don't have enough evidence to do anything. However, the more and more people that send emails accusing certain people or accounts, the closer the poker sites will look into suspicious activity between accounts. Maybe the whole thing is out of control, and there is nothing we can do about cheating/multiaccounting, but it definitely doesn't hurt to try.

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HA HA, you're the best!

Anyway, UCLA, I hope that this post proves to you the following: that whether MTT multi-accounting continues to grow is highly dependent, and I hate to sound like a dick, on a bunch of late teens and mid-20s internet professionals who think very closely in terms of how much money they can make. Most are honest, some aren't, but when push comes to shove, as long as they are maximizing expectation and internet poker is avoiding further legal complications, they are going to be happy. And they don't want to deal with this, save for some loose "WTF" conversation smothered in moral pretension.

People will "out" people based on cursory discussion over internet threads and what not, but nobody is going to take their $$ out of Pokerstars unless they are effected financially by the multi-accounters.

This is poker - smarmy [censored] will always play this game for the wrong reasons. They will lose because of these reasons, cheat, hustle, win some back, but eventually lose it when they don't cheat. Sharks will hunt these cheaters, find them when they are weak, and rape them. It's the nature of the game and has been around for 500 years. Haven't you ever seen "The Sting" before? C'mon [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

This is a huge problem, of course, as in the 21st century, we try to make once morally susceptible things as fair and noble as possible. And with that, UCLA, I ask you this - why don't you quit playing online poker for a while? Take your money out until Pokerstars takes greater action to fix the problem? Why don't you get 20 or 30 people to sign a petition and join you. I promise if you get a group big enough to do this, Pokerstars may take notice.

Barry

[stealthmunk]

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(see everyone talking to mlaggoo during the mill.)

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i dont see why you keep bringing this up in the multi accounting threads. WTF? i also dont see why you even post in the mutl accounting threads trying to defend any rational side of the argument when your backer is the only person everyone in this thread *knows for a fact* mutli accounts. why dont you just out him already? oh wait i think i have an idea as to why that would be against your interests!

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because he is insanely jealous of matt and thinks that he is better then him and deserves that win more. so to pacify himself he says that matt was cheating.

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nah, not mlagoo. I am insanely jealous of you and your WSOP though. lolol. JEEZ.

[BAK]

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The problem that comes with trying to police this is that there is no way to tell who is cheating, who is taking a moral low ground, and who is doing something that is ok.

For an example (assume that player A does not enter the tournament):

- Player A buys Player B into a tournament with strict instructions that once Player B reaches the bubble, he will turn control of the account over to Player A for the duration of the tournament.

- Player B buys into a tournament and, once reaching the bubble, gets uncomfortable and contacts Player A asking him to take over for him.

- Player B buys into a tournament and at the bubble has a sudden (legit) emergency come up. In his scramble to leave the house as quick as possible to take care of it, he calls Player A and asks him to take over the tournament for him since his only other option is to blind out.

- Player B buys into a tournament and, atthe bubble, his power goes out. He drives over to Player A's house and uses his internet for the duration of the tournament.

From the poker site's point of view, these all look the exact same. How do you distinguish between things that are perfectly acceptable, things that are innocuous, and things that are deplorable?

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Frankly, I don't think this one is actually that hard. The only situation you list that is ethical is the last one, where the person in the tournament finishes at another location due to a power outage. I do not think there is ever any justification for someone finishing a tournament for someone else, even in an emergency. If you are in a live tournament and have an emergency, you cannot get your friend to take over for you.

As for the issue of the power outage, I do not think that it would be unreasonable to say that people in that situation are SOL and cannot go to another another location to finish the tournament. The casual player would be out of luck those few times it happened to them and the pros would have a power generator as back-up. But it would be one source of cheating that could be ended rather easily I would think, from a technical perspective.