Review of Ace on the River

[MicroBob]

I think chapter 1 was one of the most fascinating and captivating chapters in the book.


I also think Stuey Ungar is an example of how much all this stuff really IS common sense.
If Stuey himself could probably see that "yeah...I probably shouldn't throw all my money away on blow."


I agree with the point that poker-ego combined with major-athlete type income and/or success alone with 'living in vegas right on top of all these temptations' can be an obvious recipe for trouble for many people.

Perhaps I underestimate the temptation for a successful high-limit player to show-off to friends and/or blow it all on whatever you feel like when it almost appears that the money coming in from the donators will be never-ending and will never stop.


But I still think that this stuff is basic common-sense.
Just because lots of people have fallen into the trap before doesn't make it any less obvious.


Here's a semi-related example:

If you listen or watch one of those personal-finance type shows (like Suze Orman or something) you will inevitably hear 1 or 2 callers who say "I just don't know what to do. I dug myself out of $10k worth of credit-card debt and got my life re-established...but now I am in trouble again. I have 13 cards maxed-out and this time owe $32k. How can I stop this from happening?"

Anyone with half a brain can see that the answer is, "Ummm...stop buying so much stuff."


The point is that just because LOTS of people have done this deal before where they 'max-out 13 credit-cards and run up $30k in debt' doesn't mean it's all that complicated to avoid.

All it means is that some people are really freaking stupid with their money no matter how much they have.
And Barry saying that this happens to high-limit poker-players too still doesn't make it any less obvious to me.


Low-limit gamblers everywhere blow WAY too much on blackjack and slots, etc.
Regular-income joe's run-up thousands and thousands in credit-card debt.
High-limit poker-player spends way too much of his income on strippers and betting the ponies.

It all looks the same to me...and all of it strikes me as stuff that just falls under the general heading 'financial responsibility'.


However...I do admit that the recent post here using Stu Ungar as an example is making me think a bit more about the possibilities here.
I'm just presenting my gut-reaction argument to this...but also realize it might not be quite as simple as I'm making it out to be.

[Colonel Kataffy]

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But I still think that this stuff is basic common-sense.
Just because lots of people have fallen into the trap before doesn't make it any less obvious.

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Exactly. The fact is, the behavior's that led to Unger's downfall were completely obvious. Thats what makes it so tragic.

The thing is, there are no shortage of people that are able to write a book about the importance of not doing drugs. There aren't, however, very many people that have the knowledge and intelligence to write a strategy book concerning poker's most compex topics. I'd prefer guys like Barry write the top notch poker strategy books and allow less capable people explain the obvious ones. Its sort of like hiring picasso to put another coat of paint on your house. That being said, Barry can write what ever the hell he wants, or paint what ever the hell he wants, but it is perfectly reasonable for people to be disappointed that Ace on the River wasn't the book that many of us had hoped.

[adsman]

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The thing is, there are no shortage of people that are able to write a book about the importance of not doing drugs.

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Absolutely, but would you bother reading them? And would you even take in the advice? Coming from Barry it has a different weight to it. All obvious advice is obvious once it's written down. Before though, it probably rarely intruded on peoples consciousness because it was so obvious. Which means that it was rarely if ever thought about. Which means that maybe it wasn't so obvious.

A lot of discussion on this thread has centered around the fact that the book is geared more towards B&M players as opposed to internet ones. What about internet players that switch to the big live stakes though? In that situation you're going to have so much to think about that some of this 'obvious' advice, when reread occasionally, could turn out to be a life saver for some.

If someone wrote a book 20 years ago about how to be a successful president and included chapters about, "Don't get blow-jobs from interens" and, "If a hurricane wipes out a city try to do something quickly", I bet everyone would have remarked on how obvious this advice was.

When you're under intense pressure the obvious things can quickly fall by the wayside. Afterwards, well, they're obvious. In the heat of the moment, when you're caught up in a 200BB downswing at 1000/2000, maybe you're worrying about other things and you forget that trying to quickly recoup your losses on craps is a bad idea.

There are a tonne of great strategy guides out there. Barry G has written a unique book. I like to think of it as the 21st century version of 'Education of a Poker Player'. It's the book you pick up when you've stumbled on the path or forgotten your way that will enable you to put things back into perspective. Without losing your shirt in the process.

This is one book that I'm not lending out, because I always want to have it around.

[pipes]

[/ QUOTE ]
Coming from Barry it has a different weight to it. All obvious advice is obvious once it's written down. Before though, it probably rarely intruded on peoples consciousness because it was so obvious. Which means that it was rarely if ever thought about. Which means that maybe it wasn't so obvious.



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What the hell does this mean? This is deep..very deep. lol

Not lending money to scumbags and not throwing my money away on gambling was obvious to me before I read it in Barry's book. I did not need one of the greatest poker players in the world to give me insights such as these.

I agree with that Ace on the River/ Picasso painting a picket fence analogy. I suggested earlier that Ace on the River was like AROD hitting .280 with 20 homeruns. Good for many, but Barry can do better.

[theduke]

barry has a very honerable and respected name in the poker community. i wish that he would open an internet poker site (barry's room) where the rake would go towards his charities. it would be nice if party poker's billions would do something beneficial for the world.

[pipes]

[ QUOTE ]
barry has a very honerable and respected name in the poker community. i wish that he would open an internet poker site (barry's room) where the rake would go towards his charities. it would be nice if party poker's billions would do something beneficial for the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting idea, but maybe hard to beat that Party marketing machine.

I think a WPT Barry G. Invitational where the vig went to charity would work well.

[captainwacky]

I read Barry's book, and to be completely honest, the insight was not as much of a "do this in this situation" as a guide to how to carry yourself. I believe that the attitudes and actions of many top players is something that inhibits them from becoming elite and or wealthy. While it wasn't necissary that you heard it from the mouth (pen?) of Barry, it was necessary that you heard it. There is more to poker than the cards, and this book covered those bases. I enjoyed it a lot.

[Matt Ruff]

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I think it's obvious that most of the people who take a negative view on the book had certain expectations going into it. The book wasn't meant for the mass audience, but more for the higher stakes B&M players.

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...and I continue to wonder, if that is really AotR's target audience, why it is so inexpensive and so pretty.

Do high-stakes B&M players have some sort of fetish for slick, mass-market-priced coffee-table books?

-- M. Ruff

[Grumbo]

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I think it's obvious that most of the people who take a negative view on the book had certain expectations going into it. The book wasn't meant for the mass audience, but more for the higher stakes B&M players.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and I continue to wonder, if that is really AotR's target audience, why it is so inexpensive and so pretty.

Do high-stakes B&M players have some sort of fetish for slick, mass-market-priced coffee-table books?

-- M. Ruff

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That's the publisher making the book as marketable as possible. Barry didn't take the pictures or create the cover. Refer back to my comments on Barry going back and forth with the publisher regarding content. Barry's intentions and the publisher's outlook for the book most likely collided here. The publisher is obviously going to do all it can to sell the most amount of books possible. Thus, the book had a nice eye-candy look to it, while the text was geared towards the more experienced B&M players (not exclusively I know).

I assume the price is so low since there is less actual text in the book than a normal poker book. I was able to read a good portion of the book just standing in the bookstore.

[lozen]

Peice of garbage 1/2 through it and nothing but crap crap crap