Lest we forget - Hiroshima & Nagasaki

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This must be an example of that new "nice," non snide, non insulting, purely logical and calm nature of poli that was being spoke of in ATF recently.


[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, don't say anything to what Govman said towards me, I'm the bad one. Whatever. The politics posters and the moderator have made it clear we don't care about your opinion on how it should be run. Take your snarky attitude where someone cares.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL Of course!
Any opinion aside from yours is invalid. (But we already knew that, now didn't we?)

[/ QUOTE ]
Strawmen are fun.

[NewTeaBag]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This must be an example of that new "nice," non snide, non insulting, purely logical and calm nature of poli that was being spoke of in ATF recently.


[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, don't say anything to what Govman said towards me, I'm the bad one. Whatever. The politics posters and the moderator have made it clear we don't care about your opinion on how it should be run. Take your snarky attitude where someone cares.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL Of course!
Any opinion aside from yours is invalid. (But we already knew that, now didn't we?)

[/ QUOTE ]
Strawmen are fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

But clearly not as fun as bolding one line FYPs, Unsupported one sentence diatribes, or just plain insulting those who dare to ask you to explain your midthread droppings. Yes I saw what Guvman asked you AND I saw your reply.

One might say that your orignal posts "left something to be desired" in the support dept. One might also say that guvman asking you to support those posts was reasonable. One might further say that your response was insulting, overboard and dramatic.

Then again, one might just say that everyone is ignorant for either not knowing exactly what your on about in your one line posts or not agreeing with you whence you decide to shout it at them in slightly greater detail.

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
Unsupported one sentence diatribes,

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you know what a diatribe is.
[ QUOTE ]
or just plain insulting those who dare to ask you to explain your midthread droppings. Yes I saw what Guvman asked you AND I saw your reply.


[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe I wouldn't of had the nerve to call him a fool and saying the propaganda he excepts is BS (this is all we're talking right?) if, you know, he hadn't said the same thing to me! Otherwise, I think even you can admit the rest of my post was very informative, yes?
[ QUOTE ]
One might say that your orignal posts "left something to be desired" in the support dept.

[/ QUOTE ]
I give what I get.
[ QUOTE ]
One might further say that your response was insulting, overboard and dramatic.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe if they had a self serving bias and an axe to grind. Like say, you.

[NewTeaBag]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unsupported one sentence diatribes,

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you know what a diatribe is.
[ QUOTE ]
or just plain insulting those who dare to ask you to explain your midthread droppings. Yes I saw what Guvman asked you AND I saw your reply.


[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe I wouldn't of had the nerve to call him a fool and saying the propaganda he excepts is BS (this is all we're talking right?) if, you know, he hadn't said the same thing to me! Otherwise, I think even you can admit the rest of my post was very informative, yes?
[ QUOTE ]
One might say that your orignal posts "left something to be desired" in the support dept.

[/ QUOTE ]
I give what I get.
[ QUOTE ]
One might further say that your response was insulting, overboard and dramatic.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe if they had a self serving bias and an axe to grind. Like say, you.

[/ QUOTE ]


You can question my intelligence, yet again.
You can revise the context of your statements, yet again.
You can make excuses where you can't pretend to rationalize, yet again.
You can find a conspiracy (self serving axe grinding jack booted thugs), yet again.
What will it all prove, yet again? You are right, beyond all doubt.

Forgive me, apostle, for doubting you or your methods, or your continued use of them, in any way shape or form. I am but a snarky, axe-grinding, statist exceptionalist (whatever that means), strawmanning, goalpost moving, intelectually dishonest apostate. BUT, at least, I am on the whole civil and reasonable with people who disagree with me, which, is not something you can say about yourself once you get past all your excuses.

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
You can question my intelligence, yet again.

[/ QUOTE ]
You used an incorrect usage of diatribe and I called you on it. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
[ QUOTE ]
You can revise the context of your statements, yet again.


[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't revise anything.
[ QUOTE ]
You can make excuses where you can't pretend to rationalize, yet again.

[/ QUOTE ]
If someone insults me, I insult them back. Sorry if you don't understand that.
[ QUOTE ]
You can find a conspiracy (self serving axe grinding jack booted thugs), yet again.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can put words in my mouth, yet again.
[ QUOTE ]
What will it all prove, yet again? You are right, beyond all doubt.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can put words in my mouth, yet again.
[ QUOTE ]
Forgive me, apostle,

[/ QUOTE ]
Wahh. wahh, your insulting me!!! Let's run to AtF!!
[ QUOTE ]
for doubting you or your methods, or your continued use of them, in any way shape or form.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do what you want. Of course I'm going to back up myself, wouldn't you if I questioned you?
[ QUOTE ]
statist exceptionalist (whatever that means),

[/ QUOTE ]
You're making exceptions for statists. Like say how you aren't on a crusade against the person that first made an insult.
[ QUOTE ]
strawmanning, goalpost moving, intelectually dishonest apostate.

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess one for four isn't bad. I would call you out for strawmanning me again, but you might start crying again.
[ QUOTE ]
BUT, at least, I am on the whole civil and reasonable with people who disagree with me, which, is not something you can say about yourself once you get past all your excuses.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, how dare I insult someone after they insult me. I'm such a mean guy.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
On a larger scale note:

Without getting into a lot of the historical revisionism going on in htis thread (from both directions, I'll add) what exactly has The USA ever done right?

I get the impression from many posters that it is always correct to look at all US historical actions in te worst possible light and all those who engaged in any form of combat with The US in the brightest, nicest possible light.

I understand andyx's POV that since The US is his country he cares more about the things they do since they are done "tacitly" in his name, but. I get the impression that many posters simply have an "Assume the US was wrong, overboard, evil, intent on murdering children, always ONLY working towards pure greed, etc" mindset prior to entering any thought or discussion of history. This mindset lacks, at a minimum, any balance or perspective.

Perhaps the ACers are right that this government (The US one) will eventually crumble. I think less so from tax revolts and inspirations to absolute personal freedoms and property, but more likely from this internal, selfloathing malaise that seems to infect an ever growing part of it's population with the absolutist mindset that all who have attacked or attack The US are justified and anything and everything The US has done or is doing is patently wrong.

I don't for a minute espouse that all US actions, politicly or militarily, have been morally superior in all cases through history. I easily admit that significant mistakes ahve been made, are being made, and will be made. That said. Why is it so difficult for those of the "trash The US" parade so difficult to admit that The US's enemies are generally worse and on the very very very very rare occasion, perhaps, just a bit, responsible for their actions and maybe even accountable for them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally on this board its immaturity and lack of real world experience combined with a free-rider mentality. The loss of patriotism engendered by the banning of the PoA in schools and the media theyve grown up with piles on top of that lack of foundation. Beginning with the second wave of anti-war movies a "blame America first" had to be adopted otherwise they would get mistaken for another "American heroes" movie. Then there's the internet and the mockumentary, with their plethora of biased information at best, outright lies at worst, exemplified by Loose Change and Michael Moore. Slogans and sound bites are a lot easier than critical thinking.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unsupported one sentence diatribes,

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you know what a diatribe is.
[ QUOTE ]
or just plain insulting those who dare to ask you to explain your midthread droppings. Yes I saw what Guvman asked you AND I saw your reply.


[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe I wouldn't of had the nerve to call him a fool and saying the propaganda he excepts is BS (this is all we're talking right?) if, you know, he hadn't said the same thing to me! Otherwise, I think even you can admit the rest of my post was very informative, yes?
[ QUOTE ]
One might say that your orignal posts "left something to be desired" in the support dept.

[/ QUOTE ]
I give what I get.
[ QUOTE ]
One might further say that your response was insulting, overboard and dramatic.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe if they had a self serving bias and an axe to grind. Like say, you.

[/ QUOTE ]


You can question my intelligence, yet again.
You can revise the context of your statements, yet again.
You can make excuses where you can't pretend to rationalize, yet again.
You can find a conspiracy (self serving axe grinding jack booted thugs), yet again.
What will it all prove, yet again? You are right, beyond all doubt.

Forgive me, apostle, for doubting you or your methods, or your continued use of them, in any way shape or form. I am but a snarky, axe-grinding, statist exceptionalist (whatever that means), strawmanning, goalpost moving, intelectually dishonest apostate. BUT, at least, I am on the whole civil and reasonable with people who disagree with me, which, is not something you can say about yourself once you get past all your excuses.

[/ QUOTE ]

And now you have expressed very clearly why he is one of my longest standing "ignores", except you missed the lack of entertainment value that Nielsio provides (like Howard Stern, "I hate him but I listen 4 hours a day to see what he'll say next").

[Kaj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On a larger scale note:

Without getting into a lot of the historical revisionism going on in htis thread (from both directions, I'll add) what exactly has The USA ever done right?

I get the impression from many posters that it is always correct to look at all US historical actions in te worst possible light and all those who engaged in any form of combat with The US in the brightest, nicest possible light.

I understand andyx's POV that since The US is his country he cares more about the things they do since they are done "tacitly" in his name, but. I get the impression that many posters simply have an "Assume the US was wrong, overboard, evil, intent on murdering children, always ONLY working towards pure greed, etc" mindset prior to entering any thought or discussion of history. This mindset lacks, at a minimum, any balance or perspective.

Perhaps the ACers are right that this government (The US one) will eventually crumble. I think less so from tax revolts and inspirations to absolute personal freedoms and property, but more likely from this internal, selfloathing malaise that seems to infect an ever growing part of it's population with the absolutist mindset that all who have attacked or attack The US are justified and anything and everything The US has done or is doing is patently wrong.

I don't for a minute espouse that all US actions, politicly or militarily, have been morally superior in all cases through history. I easily admit that significant mistakes ahve been made, are being made, and will be made. That said. Why is it so difficult for those of the "trash The US" parade so difficult to admit that The US's enemies are generally worse and on the very very very very rare occasion, perhaps, just a bit, responsible for their actions and maybe even accountable for them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally on this board its immaturity and lack of real world experience combined with a free-rider mentality. The loss of patriotism engendered by the banning of the PoA in schools and the media theyve grown up with piles on top of that lack of foundation. Beginning with the second wave of anti-war movies a "blame America first" had to be adopted otherwise they would get mistaken for another "American heroes" movie. Then there's the internet and the mockumentary, with their plethora of biased information at best, outright lies at worst, exemplified by Loose Change and Michael Moore. Slogans and sound bites are a lot easier than critical thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, its harder these days to hide the truths about how our country operates and its history. God we all miss the good ole days when people were forced to pledge allegiance, had few independent sources of information, and didn't question the hypocrisy of their leaders. Maybe just maybe, it wasn't any of the things you cite, but rather Watergate, Vietnam, Iran-Contra, Iraq, Clinton's perjury and a host of other events which highlight how we've been lied to and manipulated that has made some people wake from their slumber and look at history with a more open and skeptical eye, while others still sleep on wrapped in the pseudo-comfort of their "patriotism".

[NewTeaBag]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On a larger scale note:

Without getting into a lot of the historical revisionism going on in htis thread (from both directions, I'll add) what exactly has The USA ever done right?

I get the impression from many posters that it is always correct to look at all US historical actions in te worst possible light and all those who engaged in any form of combat with The US in the brightest, nicest possible light.

I understand andyx's POV that since The US is his country he cares more about the things they do since they are done "tacitly" in his name, but. I get the impression that many posters simply have an "Assume the US was wrong, overboard, evil, intent on murdering children, always ONLY working towards pure greed, etc" mindset prior to entering any thought or discussion of history. This mindset lacks, at a minimum, any balance or perspective.

Perhaps the ACers are right that this government (The US one) will eventually crumble. I think less so from tax revolts and inspirations to absolute personal freedoms and property, but more likely from this internal, selfloathing malaise that seems to infect an ever growing part of it's population with the absolutist mindset that all who have attacked or attack The US are justified and anything and everything The US has done or is doing is patently wrong.

I don't for a minute espouse that all US actions, politicly or militarily, have been morally superior in all cases through history. I easily admit that significant mistakes ahve been made, are being made, and will be made. That said. Why is it so difficult for those of the "trash The US" parade so difficult to admit that The US's enemies are generally worse and on the very very very very rare occasion, perhaps, just a bit, responsible for their actions and maybe even accountable for them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally on this board its immaturity and lack of real world experience combined with a free-rider mentality. The loss of patriotism engendered by the banning of the PoA in schools and the media theyve grown up with piles on top of that lack of foundation. Beginning with the second wave of anti-war movies a "blame America first" had to be adopted otherwise they would get mistaken for another "American heroes" movie. Then there's the internet and the mockumentary, with their plethora of biased information at best, outright lies at worst, exemplified by Loose Change and Michael Moore. Slogans and sound bites are a lot easier than critical thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, its harder these days to hide the truths about how our country operates and its history. God we all miss the good ole days when people were forced to pledge allegiance, had few independent sources of information, and didn't question the hypocrisy of their leaders. Maybe just maybe, it wasn't any of the things you cite, but rather Watergate, Vietnam, Iran-Contra, Iraq, Clinton's perjury and a host of other events which highlight how we've been lied to and manipulated that has made some people wake from their slumber and look at history with a more open and skeptical eye, while others still sleep on wrapped in the pseudo-comfort of their "patriotism".

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd ask you to reread what I wrote there.
Many peoples would probably fall alongside my viewpoint that Yes, America has done it's share of dirty deeds, but also there do exist ACTUAL REAL PEOPLES out there who wish us ill will. Can you recognize that? Can you dedicate even a portion of the self loathing to actually calling them out once in a while as notsogoodniks? Can you not perjoritize patriotism? Do you not see that blindered absolute criticism of The USA is just as faulted and blindered as absolute patriotism?

[Kaj]

I never had blinded absolute criticism, thank you very much.

And I acknowledge there are people who wish us ill will. Unfortunately, we give them plenty of reasons by our actions around the world. Does this justify their actions? Probably not. Does it absolve us of our responsibility for the state of affairs? Definitely not.