*official 2007 red sox thread*

[legend42]

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I sure did. After throwing 13 consecutive, straight(as in no movement whatsoever) fastballs to the batter before where he could not get a swing and miss

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You don't necessarily want a lot of movement on your fastball when you have 3 balls in the count (down by 1 run in the ninth vs. a non-power hitter). Yes his FB definitely lacked zip, but at least he was spotting it. The ability to throw 9 out of 10 pitches for strikes (all in good spots, and Willits didn't come close to hitting any of them hard) has some value. And he has shown some ability to miss bats recently (I know, zomg Devil Rays, etc.)

I do think that at-bat exhausted him physically and mentally, and carried over to the Kotchman walk. His job against Figgins was very good (painted each corner with FBs, threw a nice 1-2 change that Figgins didn't chase, climbed the ladder and jammed him with FBs that Figgins just fought off, and finally he got one that he could pull through the hole, that probably would have been right at Youks had there not been a runner on 1st). Even the ball that Cabrera pulled through the hole was right on the outside corner, and will often be a GIDP. Then, just like K-Rod in the previous inning, he got frustrated.

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So he lost confidence with his breaking stuff and tried to get by with fastballs that had no movement. It didn't work.

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You're right, it didn't work, and I am over-defending him. But the kind of effort he gave will result in a scoreless inning much of the time. Just not last night. Right now, I put him just behind Delcarmen, just ahead of Timlin on the trust scale. But I would not be surprised at all if he improves going forward. Maybe Tek needs some time to be able to read his stuff better. Again, remember Scott Williamson.

[Joe Tall]

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ah jeez yer right

well we'll exercise our option and then trade him after we win the WS since i am assuming tito is too stupid to stop using gagne despite a large sample size of terrible performance

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Wake up, Kyle! The Sox fans want NOW not 2 years from now when your statement converges.

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lol wtf joe?

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WTF, WTF sublime? He SUCKS, wtf are you smoking?

I'm not the only one who is doubting him:

From Gordon Edes article today:

Asked if he'd lost confidence in Gagné, Ortiz said, "You got to ask that of the manager."

Oh, and I assume PECOTA has angry fan throwing $hit at you while pitching factor figured in too, eh:

Guerrero crushed a ball to center field for another double, two runs scored, and one spectator in last night's crowd of 36,538 single-handedly gave credence to the contention made by Angels center fielder Gary Matthews that Sox fans are "loud, drunk, and obnoxious." The cretin in question hurled a plastic bottle that landed on the grass near the pitcher's mound and skipped over the dirt, well within Gagné's line of vision.

And don't give me that "sample size" bull and that retarded professional gambler comment. We both know that emotion and control is a HUGE factor. I haven't been over a 400BB downswing online and haven't been over a 200 live. AND that 400BB swing, yeah I ran bad, but I tilted for sure. Frankly, the winning players you know are the most naturally tiltless ones on this board. There are number of factors for this but this is a huge topic for another day.

Back to baseball, this this Red Sox baseball, this is Fenway, he's not cutting it, he has no confidence or is hurt, either way, he's nothing more than a garbage time pitcher atm. I'd take Borowski easily right now.

[kyleb]

ship him for borowski pls

[sublime]

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ah jeez yer right

well we'll exercise our option and then trade him after we win the WS since i am assuming tito is too stupid to stop using gagne despite a large sample size of terrible performance

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Wake up, Kyle! The Sox fans want NOW not 2 years from now when your statement converges.

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lol wtf joe?

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WTF, WTF sublime? He SUCKS, wtf are you smoking?

I'm not the only one who is doubting him:

From Gordon Edes article today:

Asked if he'd lost confidence in Gagné, Ortiz said, "You got to ask that of the manager."

Oh, and I assume PECOTA has angry fan throwing $hit at you while pitching factor figured in too, eh:

Guerrero crushed a ball to center field for another double, two runs scored, and one spectator in last night's crowd of 36,538 single-handedly gave credence to the contention made by Angels center fielder Gary Matthews that Sox fans are "loud, drunk, and obnoxious." The cretin in question hurled a plastic bottle that landed on the grass near the pitcher's mound and skipped over the dirt, well within Gagné's line of vision.

And don't give me that "sample size" bull and that retarded professional gambler comment. We both know that emotion and control is a HUGE factor. I haven't been over a 400BB downswing online and haven't been over a 200 live. AND that 400BB swing, yeah I ran bad, but I tilted for sure. Frankly, the winning players you know are the most naturally tiltless ones on this board. There are number of factors for this but this is a huge topic for another day.

Back to baseball, this this Red Sox baseball, this is Fenway, he's not cutting it, he has no confidence or is hurt, either way, he's nothing more than a garbage time pitcher atm. I'd take Borowski easily right now.

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what is it about sports that make normally well adjusted, smart people act and think like lunatics?

i am talking about you and not the cretin who threw something at gagne (WTF?).

gagne should be the thrid option out of the pen going forward. why?

simple. hes not as good as papelbon and/or okijima yet is better than delcarmen (wow is he lucky gagne came around, talk about getting away with murder) and timlin. not because he has thrown 6 bad innings.

if hes hurt. DL him. if not? keep pitching him.

the fact that he has to worry about things being thrown at him, or listening to idiots yell at him in the bullpen makes me embarrassed to be a red sox fan.

should we have benched manny ramirez after an april in which he hit for a .629 OPS over 89 at bats?

if not, why? please EXPLAIN to me why thats different than 7 innings pitched....

no really answer THAT question please.

afterwards you can make some more posts about smoking crack and watching different games and keep bringing up people throwing stuff etc....in the meantime explian the difference as to why manny ramirez didnt SUCK AND HAD NO CONFIDENCE LETS KILL HIM OR TRADE HIM FOR TROT NIXON yet gagne should be.


FTR, will i be comfortable with gagne pitching over the next week? of course not. however i seem to be rational enough to realize that not pitching him at all is just retarded (assuming hes not hurt, which isnt likely).

i mean JESUS even TORO seems to grasp that the guy should still pitch...and hes the king of reactionary blowups.

[Toro]

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i mean JESUS even TORO seems to grasp that the guy should still pitch...and hes the king of reactionary blowups.

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Haha. Very clever how you come around to my way of thinking and spin it to make it sound the opposite.

Edit: Btw, I like how you put both our lord and my screen name in caps.

[sublime]

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i mean JESUS even TORO seems to grasp that the guy should still pitch...and hes the king of reactionary blowups.

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Haha. Very clever how you come around to my way of thinking and spin it to make it sound the opposite.

Edit: Btw, I like how you put both our lord and my screen name in caps.

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YOUR lord. I'm an atheist [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[zer0]

kielty up, ellsbury down

[Joe Tall]

OHHHHHH NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOO! BIG PAPI!

[sublime]

i cant see this game anywhere. i [censored] hate blackout rules.

[zer0]

i can get used to this offense putting together massive innings.

how long till weei acknowledges jd drew's hot streak?