** Official July Chat Thread: The Black Swan **

[myheadhurts]

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whereas I'm in the "The only thing I'm sure about is Richard Dawkins is a arrogant git" camp.

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IMO, it's much better to be arrogant than ignorant.

Some of the most succesful people in every field are very arrogant.

In other words, I'd much rather be a smart-ass than a dumbáss.

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True. But it's better still to be intelligent and humble.

The Blind Watchmaker is mostly a wonderful, intelligent, well written and informative scientific book. The God Delusion crosses over into a bit of self obsession on Dawkin's part, IMO.

Even the arrogance doesn't actually bother me too much. Where I draw the line is where "scientists" either lie or ignore scientific fact. Dawkin's use of probability to "prove" that the probability of God existing is very low is poorly written and misleading at best. What's more, I believe Dawkins is too intelligent, and would know at Oxford mathematicians and statisticians of too high quality, for him not be be aware of this.

There's nothing wrong with a scientist straying out of his field of pure scientific fact and stating his opinions on theology/politics/philosphy/whatever. But at the point that he starts making scientifically inaccurate statements (in any field of science), he becomes a politician.

In conclusion - I agree with most of the scientific things Richard Dawkins says. From a personality point of view I wish I was on the other side of the argument.

[TheProdigy]

Guys, come on I think everyone here knows this isn't the place for a religious discussion.

Also, I am pretty sure it will absolutely never be settled. You can have rebuttals constantly and it will never end.

Just end it now on your own and get back to poker. All religious discussions do is get everyone mad at each other because they don't have the same beliefs in the end. Regardless of if you think that anyone would get mad or not, look at every religious discussion by a (mostly) egotistical group like ourselves(you have to be somewhat to succeed in cards, IMO), and they don't ever come out as an agreement, so what is the point?

[diebitter]

Arrrogance is a horrible and loathsome trait. I find this forum actually quite refreshing on that account, there doesn't seem to be that much ego, IMO.

I loathe people that think they are way smarter than everyone else. Arrogant people don't really have friends, but more people that put up with them fora night out.

[myheadhurts]

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<--- non-preachy Christian

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Who created the "creator" then?

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I still don't like this argument from people who don't believe in God/a creator. You're saying that someone had to create the creator, but the standard belief from those people is that the Earth was created from some type of explosion, right? Everything has to have a starting point. Believing in a creator is more rational than believing we just evolved out of thin air.

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That isn't actually the argument from the "anti" side. It is actually a retort to an argument from the pro side.

The pro side often argue that the world is so complex and beautiful that it couldn't have occured by chance - it must have a creator.

The anti side retort that if such a creator existed, he must himself be complex (even more so in fact), and therefore, by the hypothesis of the pro side, must have been created himself.

Note the anti side are quite happy with the "out of nothing" state of affairs. The point is that if you believe the "out of nothing" thing cannot apply to the universe, you must explain why it cannot be applied to God. From this point of view it isn't "more rational" to believe in a creator - in fact it's slightly less rational, as you have suggested an even more complex thing appeared out of nothing.

[chicken10der]

elvis didn't do no drugs

[diebitter]

re Religious discussion

TheProdigy is right. It's never ending, and is better served in SMP, or even The Lounge. These are better places to discuss the giant spaghetti monster in the sky, or whatever gods you follow.

[mlane]

I feel like seeing something fun, is 1408 any goot?

[myheadhurts]

Anyone fancy a heads up match or two? PM/AIM me/whatever

[Hklm8383]

lol religion

[iponnet]

pokerboy I think now I know how you have 100K hands of BE stretches!!! god hates gambling didnt you know?

on a seriouse note I cant get myself to believe in something there is no evidence off and even more its existence doesnt make sence and seems man made..... and I think all humans are Atheist deep inside (nobody sane wants to die young), they just go along with the flow because it makes life seem simple/easy/fair etc.....I just dont like kidding myself