To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunday

[ipp147]

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It seems to me this whole thread is pointless. Everyone can talk about and debate right and wrong till this thread is 1,000 pages long, but... is any good coming of it?

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It's saved me putting my dead money into a couple of WCOOP events for fun....

[Jurollo]

Adam,
You likely are posting in the heat of the moment but please go back and read your posts again. It paints you in a very bad light.

Gobbo,
For Jeff to make this post and have specific knowledge of people cheating without turning them in is, frankly, silly. He doesn't want to break life long relationships? Well I can obviously see why as the friends who are taking money out of his pocket seem like the kind of great people you should align yourself with long term.

All,
I would like to not get into this too deep for obvious reasons but as you have all heard before the players are the first line of defense in these issues and knowing a friend is doing this, letting him/her do it without chastising and telling them you will turn them in because they are screwing you, then not turning them in when they refuse to stop is down right criminal. If you don't want to throw your friends to the wolves then so be it. Give them a chance to stop on their own but make it damn clear that if it continues you won't allow them to threaten your livelihood. I find it so ironic that the very same people here who are sweeping this under the rug or saying they don't want to turn in friends are almost, with 100% accuracy, kids who have decided to forego a college education on the promise of long term viability of playing poker for a living, yet in the same instant they let other unsavory characters threaten this viability and directly steal money from their pocket in the hopes of maintaining the status quo in their social network. This is a problem, it's a problem that people don't respect the rules and ethics of the game and its even a bigger problem that when these problems are uncovered people hide behind this veil of friendship to justify sitting on their laurels and not doing anything. Well I certainly hope that in a year or so that this problem and other cheating doesn't get compounded even more due to the total apathy of a few for doing the right thing as, ironically, it will leave the very kids that didn't do anything now stuck without an education and now without their once lucrative income source.


Sorry for the ramble, it will likely be hard to read. Vegas has fried my brain and I blame it for any issues with grammar.

[uclabruinz]

David,

I have been thinking about what I can do as a lawyer and if the right high-volume, high-stakes MTT player potential client were to contact me and want to pursue it, I would give it very serious thought. Would have to be a California resident though.

It would have to be similar to what DirecTV and the RIAA used to do to try to identify potential copyright pirates. They would file a lawsuit against one or more John or Jane Does, then supboena a third-party to identify the actual defendant. If a high-stakes regular were to sue John Does (claims could be conversion (i.e., theft), illegal business practices, probably others), they could issue subpoenas and haul those "in the know" into a deposition under oath.

Worth considering at least. The right private citizen with the right lawyer could probably blow the whole thing wide open.

[Ansky]

I know of no one who still multi accounts.

If I did, I would turn them in without a doubt.

I do however, know of some ppl who multi accounted, were caught, and never quite made the "presses" if u want to call NVG/MTTc/P5s that.

Multi accounting is cheating, and it isn't cheating because it's breaking the TOC.

[whitcolumn]

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It seems to me this whole thread is pointless. Everyone can talk about and debate right and wrong till this thread is 1,000 pages long, but... is any good coming of it?

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It's saved me putting my dead money into a couple of WCOOP events for fun....

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I guess my take on things is this. I play online poker, I have since 2003. With the exception of a few months and the first half a year of my play, I have always won. Have things changed between '03 and now SO MUCH that I can no longer make a profit because of before mentioned cheating? No. So, I will continue to do what I've always done. I hope the situation resolves... because I am morally opposed to it... but all this talk hasn't convinced me to pull my bankroll out of every MTT either. I guess my point is, to me, things are still business as usual. That's just my 2 cents, others might take this issue totally different

[A_Junglen]

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I don't want to harp on IMing during hands, because it's clear the sites tolerate it and almost everyone does it, but I suspect it's something that scares/frustrates donks when they realize it's occurring. It's one thing to be in a hand against Phil Ivey, but it's even more daunting when Phil can get up from the table and talk to Daniel N. and Phil Helmuth in the middle of the hand about how to proceed.

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This is online poker. There are differences. Why do you keep complaining about something perfectly legal?


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It's inevitable that players are going to IM each other during hands, and it's completely understandable why the best players would want to seek out other good players for advice in the middle of a hand. So I'm not looking to castigate anyone for doing it, but I am asking for everyone to consider whether or not it's a great idea to openly broadcast that it happens.

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They can if they want...it's legal



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I think multi-accounting is similar.

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......................Expectation much?

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Having said that -- and this is really my larger point here: I question the wisdom of threads like this, which do little but create that paranoia you seem so frustrated by. *I* don't know any multi-accounters; so there's not much action I can take. Jeff apparently knows some, but he's decided not to do anything either. I suspect everyone who is aware of specific players who multi-account have made their own decisions about whether or not to report them to the various sites. So I fail to see what this thread accomplishes, aside from scaring casual players away from the table. The online poker industry is already wrought with credibility problems, and I think threads like this just exacerbate the problem.

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Online poker isn't going anywhere.


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Suggesting you're well-networked with Stars reps and can get "inside" information from them is similarly problematic; those friendships may be completely above-board, but it won't stop the "zomg rigged" crowd from implying that your friends at Stars have turned off your doomswitch for you, or have let you know how to circumvent their multi-account security protocols. Particularly when you seem to openly flaunt that you're "in-the-know" about what Stars does to police for multi-accounters. I realize that's probably not the case, and the only information you had was specific players who had been busted in the past, but your first post in response to ucla ("you don't know all that Stars is doing") isn't clear, and could reasonably interpreted to suggest that you know what steps Stars takes to catch mutli-accounters.

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What the hell? I said I had dinner with Sciolist (sp?) in Dublin and he talked about banning ZJ and JJ. I never claimed to have "inside" information. You're completely overreacting. "Openly flaunt that I'm in the know"? WTF? I know they busted JJ and ZJ...Just like everyone else.

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This thread has 5000 views, and I suspect at least a couple of people who read it are going to think "the top players all have 10 accounts, IM each other when I'm in a hand with them, and are friends with the guys who run the sites. I can't possibly go deep in the big events", even if that characterization is grossly unfair. I don't really care to debate the ethical merits of multi-accounting or the 1-player-per-hand rule, but I feel pretty confident this thread and ones like it frighten people away from the tables. So I think it makes sense to either take action and report multi-accounters, or just stop making threads where the discussion centers around a continuing problem that threatens the integrity of the game.

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OH NOES





gg

[A_Junglen]

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How would I know such knowledge?

Casual observation you clown. When one of the best players on PokerStars disappears for a year he just MIGHT have gotten caught multiaccounting. JUST A HUNCH. (Sorry btw, but I have to defend myself against these retarded implications)

Jesus [censored] christ. Everyone's so [censored] paranoid.

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Is this the same Adam I just knew in Vegas?

Really Adam, no need for the name calling, DVault1 has conducted himself with a lot of class IMHO.

Nath, Ucla, MLG, DVault and some of the others with strong opinions on this. Let's do something, it's shocking we're in the minority between all the self called "professionals".

Poker was always shady in the past (think 70's 80's) with plenty of scumbags, I thought the Internet era and the new young guys with a little more education and hopefully more sense of ethics would change that, I guess not.

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I do apologize, but "clown" is pretty tame for name calling (usually in a joking manner tbh).

I'm just used to hanging around others in the know.

[pokerstudAA]

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I find it so ironic that the very same people here who are sweeping this under the rug or saying they don't want to turn in friends are almost, with 100% accuracy, kids who have decided to forego a college education on the promise of long term viability of playing poker for a living, yet in the same instant they let other unsavory characters threaten this viability and directly steal money from their pocket in the hopes of maintaining the status quo in their social network.

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This is very well said. For people that try to earn a living from this game to look the other way when something threatens their income is ridiculous. It should be a BIG deal.

[uclabruinz]

By the way, from what I understand it was Ozzy87 that was banned from Stars for multiaccounting, in case anyone is wondering who Adam was apparently referring to.

[shaundeeb]

I thought he said it was redsoxsox in another post and others confirmed it.