Richest 2% hold half of world's assets

[BCPVP]

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Your parents get rich off of the work that other people do. The workers on your parents farm would be much better off if they ran the farm themselves and didn't have your dad's hand in their pockets.

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And now we're back to owner's not doing anything. Snowball, you suck at this.

[ianlippert]

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He makes a real contribution by coordinating labor, obtaining clients and ordering supplies. In a socialist society, he would perform these tasks as an employee of the construction cooperative.

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You forgot the most important one: Risking his own capital

[ianlippert]

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I don't know how it could be clearer. Your parents get rich off of the work that other people do. The workers on your parents farm would be much better off if they ran the farm themselves and didn't have your dad's hand in their pockets.



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So why dont they start their own business? We live in a capitalist society but theres nothing stopping the 'workers' from starting their own business.

It really surprises me how many people on a poker forum dont understand risk management. If I invest $1 million into a business that has a 10% chance of being successful, I have to make $9 million in profits when I am successful just to break even. If you start cutting into successful businesses profits they will just stop taking the risks that need to be taken for a prosperous economy.

[Dan.]

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He makes a real contribution by coordinating labor, obtaining clients and ordering supplies. In a socialist society, he would perform these tasks as an employee of the construction cooperative.

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You forgot the most important one: Risking his own capital

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lol arguingincirclesaments. Did you read the posts above? Snoball just talked about "risking his own capital."

[ianlippert]

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lol arguingincirclesaments. Did you read the posts above? Snoball just talked about "risking his own capital."



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I stopped really reading once it seemed like people were arguing for some kind of marxist exploitation of labour theory.

[Dan.]

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So why dont they start their own business? We live in a capitalist society but theres nothing stopping the 'workers' from starting their own business.

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Do you have the necessary capital to open your own company? I'll wager large sums that the overwhelming majority of factory workers don't, and the system is designed to keep it that way. The people are paid enough to survive and keep coming back to the job, not to save up and start their own business.

Perhaps I'll put it this way. I'm sure most factory workers would like to own their own business, but when the choice is work in the factory and live, albeit meagerly, or try to start your own business and let your family starve, then that's no choice at all. The capitalist are, as the ACist like to say, holding a gun and saying: be exploited or starve.

[Copernicus]

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between those inconsistencies and his inability to grasp that contributions of capital are as relevant as contributions of labor, snowball his hopelessly mired in Marxist fantasies

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I understand that firms have two inputs--capital and labor--but that capital didn't build itself. Pray tell, Sir, when you follow production back to the very basic parts, what exists? Not captial and labor. Just labor. Capital must necessarily come from someone's labor.


Edit: And please, insult my economic knowledge or something. I'm an econ major at one of the US's top universities.

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there are plenty of students majoring in all kinds of fields that dont understaand their specialties. (Im not saying you dont, just that your status doesnt qualify you.)

And no, if you follow it back there isnt just labor, there is also intellectual capital. If you want to play semantics and claim that intellectual capital = "mental labor", dont bother, because that has nothing to do with snowballs preposterous positions on exploitation and the equivalence of profit and theft.

[Money2Burn]

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My mom is part owner of their farm, she does no work on the farm. She just keeps the books. How is that exploitive? Or are you talking about "silent partners" who just put up some money and then reap the profits later on?

If the later is the case how are they exploiting people? They took significant risk putting up substantial sums on a business that had no guaruntee of being sucessful. I have no problem with allowing them to reap the rewards of a good investment. Aparently you do, why?


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I don't know how it could be clearer. Your parents get rich off of the work that other people do. The workers on your parents farm would be much better off if they ran the farm themselves and didn't have your dad's hand in their pockets.

I really don't care about the risk your dad took. Would you care about the risk a slaveowner took? No! Because that economic mode of production is terrible, and shouldn't ever exist. The private ownership of the means of production is backwards, inefficient, and bad for humanity. The fact that your dad took a risk - with money he probably didn't earn in the first place, and bought land from someone who probably stole it to begin with - shouldn't hold back generations and generations of humans from living in a better world.

Hopefully after the revolution, your mom and dad can find real jobs. If your mom is as good at bookeeping as you imply, they'll probably hire her on the farm after the worker's seize control. Maybe she can put a good word in for your dad? Does he have any talents besides making "good investments?"

I haven't received a PM from you to get my UB/AP/Neteller info re: the bet you lost vs. me. PAY WHAT YOU OWE!

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Do you have the necessary capital to open your own company? I'll wager large sums that the overwhelming majority of factory workers don't, and the system is designed to keep it that way. The people are paid enough to survive and keep coming back to the job, not to save up and start their own business.

Perhaps I'll put it this way. I'm sure most factory workers would like to own their own business, but when the choice is work in the factory and live, albeit meagerly, or try to start your own business and let your family starve, then that's no choice at all. The capitalist are, as the ACist like to say, holding a gun and saying: be exploited or starve.


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I will address both of you all in this post because my example deals with points both of you are tryiig to make.

First, snoball, you say my dad started his business with money he didn't earn, this is completely wrong. My dad worked for years, FOR ANOTHER FARMER, and saved his money. He then rented land and equipment from the very same farmer he had originally worked for to start his own business.

Dano, this proves where you are wrong, the business owners aren't the ones "paying their workers just enough to live and keep working there" if the employees don't manage their money well it's their fault. My dad did it along with countless other entroprenurs in this country. Snoball, do you think owners of big business have just magicly always had their cash? Take Wayne Hyzinga (sp?), he built his fortune starting out with one garbage truck and today he is one of those rich, evil, capitalist, parasites which you despise so much.

Find real jobs? Either of my parents has worked harder in their lives to get where they are than you ever will. The fact that you can't see that shows there is some serious disconnect in your view of how things are.

As for the bet, there was no proper acceptance and no consideration therefore I owe you nothing [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Dan.]

Oh, nevermind. If money2burn's dad did it, that means everyone can. Hell, someone somewhere at sometime once won the lottery. Why don't all factory workers do that?

[Money2Burn]

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So why dont they start their own business? We live in a capitalist society but theres nothing stopping the 'workers' from starting their own business.

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Do you have the necessary capital to open your own company? I'll wager large sums that the overwhelming majority of factory workers don't, and the system is designed to keep it that way. The people are paid enough to survive and keep coming back to the job, not to save up and start their own business.

Perhaps I'll put it this way. I'm sure most factory workers would like to own their own business, but don't have the intellect or the fiscal responsibility to create a succesfull one, so they keep working at the factory resenting their evil bosses who are stealing from them

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fyp