Zogby Poll: Over 70 Million American Adults Support New 9/11 Investiga

[matrix]

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For now, the most outrageous of the WTC7 claims can still be discounted ("minimal damage") from photos of the 20 story tall gaping hole on the south side and the fires burning on those floors.

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Photos of what 20 story hole (?????)

I can't find any.

I did find this which is a point by point work through of the FEMA report on WT7 in part - which points out a few problems.

As far as I can tell so far after about 90 mins of web searching there are precisely ZERO photos of a 20 story gaping hole in the South side.

You'd think if there were such photos they be appearing on sites like 911myths.com - I contend no such photos exist as no such hole exists.

There are photos contained in the FEMA report from all sides of WT7 that show almost no visible exterior damage

You'd think that such a large hole would have been shown in FEMA's report - I can find no mention of it.

from 911myths.com - If firefighter testimony about hearing "explosions" is regarded as valid, then why not this?

the firefighter interview quote cited in that webpage is taken from an interview for the August 2002 edition of Firehouse magazine. So this firefighter is recounting events as he saw them (allowing for 6 weeks lead time in publishing) at least NINE months later

From the same magazine another firefighter with almost twice as much experience - interviewed FOUR MONTHS earlier - mentions no such hole. He mentions a bulge in one corner of about 3 stories - it is definitely clear that building 7 was damaged and had fire in it.

But a TWENTY STORY HOLE is just ridiculous. We are expected to believe a lone firefighter interview on this almost a year after the fact? People don't remember stuff perfectly clearly - and not some time afterwards. Maybe there was a hole - but I seriously doubt it was 20 stories high.

In contrast the firefighter interviews mostly that recount explosions were taken immediately afterwards - are more numerous and much more convincing.

In the over SIX HOURS between the first tower collapses and the collapse of WT7 you'd think someone somewhere would have photographed the southside of building 7 - and if they had and the building was indeed that badly damaged - you'd think the photos would have made it onto the internet by now.

This is one of the most well documented disasters in modern history.

It is POSSIBLE that this firefighter was bribed - or otherwise persuaded to fabricate a story about severe damage.

It is POSSIBLE that this one firefigher doesn't remember things as they actually happened and despite recounting the truth as he remembers it 100% truthfully his recall of events is incorrect[/b]

It is POSSIBLE that this one firefighters account is totally accurate.

If his story is accurate though why then is he the only person to see an otherwise undocumented TWENTY STORY HOLE.

WTC7 was a 47 story structure - twenty stories is almost half the height of the building. I think that would get noticed and reported earlier than one year later by more than one single firefighter.

Lets go out on a limb here. Lets say for the sake of argument that this firefighter is right and there is a 20 story hole in the south side and other massive damage.

The north side as far as we can tell looks almost pristine. Very little if any damage is visible from the outside.

If you take out half the building from one side how then can the rest of the building collapse almost vertically into it's own footprint?

How is that possible???

Surely it would have fallen slightly more at least towards the South than it did the North - and is much much more likely to topple South than fall down vertically.

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A 20 story gaping hole and a fire that consumed the entire building. Sure sounds like "minor damage" to me. Plus we have the testimony of some of the firefighters who were present and were worried that the building wasn't structurally sound.


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None of those other firefighters to my knowledge once ever mention a TWENTY STORY hole.

Many of them voice concerns that the building is unsafe. None of them note that hole - apart from that issue of firehouse mgazine that hole is unreported at all.

[matrix]

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An engnineering study of WTC7 was awarded in March which should clear up any of the unanswered questions (except for the ...... and Matrix of the world).


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I don't get this. I can understand why you'd say that about me, but Matrix continues to prove to be the most intelligent and objective person in these threads.

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thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

don't mind him. He apparently has me on ignore and isn't reading anything I type now anyway.

I try hard to remain as unbiased and objective as I can.

I try hard to base my opinions on facts and evidence.

I do not call people names, but still some people choose to ignore me rather than read what I type. Other people insult me, call me an idiot and dismiss my arguments because they claim I'm insane or a tinfoil hat wearing loon.

*shrug*

Show me a conclusive argument that persuades me that the official story is true and I'd not only admit my mistake but would argue just as hard afterwards in the other direction.

I only want the truth to come out. To get it out we need to have an independant new investigation.

[matrix]

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Obviously GWB and his cronies have taken full advantage of 9/11 to further their interests. Whether they actually orchestrated 9/11 or just reacted to the situation that presented itself is where our opinions diverge. Personally, I think that 9/11 fell into GWB's lap thanks to the ineptitude of US intelligence, and the willingness of Muslim extremists to commit suicide to advance their cause.


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A week or so ago this was also my opinion.

A good friend then sent me the "Pentagon Strike" Flash vid - which I watched and thought to myself.

Hang on a minute - this vid makes a few good points here.

Then I went and looked on google video and found plane sight loose change and a few other vids.

By this time I am a bit gobsmacked to say the least.

Still I don't believe it, I found 911myths.com and read a good chunk of that site - I found 911truth.org and read a bit from there as well.

Then I went and read the commission report and it struck me that the whole official story was a sham.

Then I started posting here and since then I have read a few more sites on either side of the argument and I remain convinced that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon and that the towers were demolished by explosives at least in part.


Can I ask what you believe happened to the towers and why they collapsed - and what evidence you have looked at that leads you to believe this to be true.

I really want to believe that the hijackers did it - and that the official story is more or less correct. The implications that follow if the Govt did this themselves and blamed it on al-Qaeda afterwards don't bear thinking about. But I still can't find enough credible evidence that backs up the official story, there is more than enough evidence to cause me to have more than a reasonable doubt in the official story.

what has convinced you so much that you continue arguing vociferously for the "official conspiracy theory" - but dismiss the alternatives so totally??

[Copernicus]

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Plus we have the testimony of some of the firefighters who were present and were worried that the building wasn't structurally sound.

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I'm pretty sure if I was a firefighter on Sep 11, I'd be pretty concerned about buildings collapsing.

Besides we have all kind of statements by firefighters and other regular Joes working in the site on 9-11, do you believe all of them, right? ; the funny thing is, why do you need these statements to make a point about WTC7? Where is the independent study (backed by the academic community if possible) that explains the collapse?

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It was to be part of the overall NIST engineering study, and maybe it was, I didnt read all 300 pages yet. However, a study was commissioned in March to investigate WTC7 only.

[boracay]

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http://www.911myths.com/index.html

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just hope there will be sites like that still in 2015.