I DESERVE RESPECT

[SlowHabit]

Shoe,

Please rape the market and show everyone what sup. Although your success will make me eat my own words, I'm rooting for you because you seem like a nice person.

As for the musical chair credit card scheme, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. What got Henry tilted was probably you wanting respect but do not have enough cash on your own to invest. I agree with Henry in that borrowing money isn't something to brag about. But whatever. Who cares. F the haters and good luck.

[Henry17]

[ QUOTE ]
My initial guess is that Shoe is overconfident in his abilities to pick stocks, however it sounds like he is not going to default on anything since he has money to back it up. He's not saying "If it goes up great; I make some money. If it goes down oh well; I don't have to pay it."

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If he has money to back it up why is he bothering to get involved with this scam?

He claims to have been interested in the stock market for 10 years so it is not like he discovered last week that he had psychic abilities. In 10 years he has not been able to accumulate any money to invest. Why would you think if something goes wrong he'll be able to pay it back?

[skindog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My initial guess is that Shoe is overconfident in his abilities to pick stocks, however it sounds like he is not going to default on anything since he has money to back it up. He's not saying "If it goes up great; I make some money. If it goes down oh well; I don't have to pay it."

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has money to back it up why is he bothering to get involved with this scam?

He claims to have been interested in the stock market for 10 years so it is not like he discovered last week that he had psychic abilities. In 10 years he has not been able to accumulate any money to invest. Why would you think if something goes wrong he'll be able to pay it back?

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He's doing it because it's not a scam. And if something goes wrong the card company wins, because he will be charged interest, and he will pay - he has shown no intention to default or otherwise defraud the bank.

I'm also done talking about this... the ethical difference between kiting and what Shoe is doing is so great that I fail to see how any rational person can continue to stand by your point.

[Henry17]

He might pay it back and ruin his life for 10 years or more likely he'll simply default. He has been out of school for some time now and has nothing to show for it. He'll never be able to get out from under this debt.

Also people who think like him don't ever give up. They keep chasing the get quick rich schemes and [censored] their responsibilities.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm also done talking about this... the ethical difference between kiting and what Shoe is doing is so great that I fail to see how any rational person can continue to stand by your point.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has nothing to do with ethics it is about respect. Although his behaviour is not ethical either that is a different issue.

This conversation would interest me a lot more if I knew the age and net worth of the people defending Shoe's actions. So far the only person I know to have done well for themselves is Stephen and he sees things the same way I do.

[stephenNUTS]

If someone who claims to be the StockMarket King after 10+ yrs of market experience ,has to stoop to C/C musical chairs/roulette to "raise capital" is IMO,down to their last leg.

If as some posters are saying it is perfectly legal to take the 0% intro rate,and move from card to card.....what happens when each card is eventually felted?
Another ponzi scheme at it finest gone bad!

Sure the bank DOESNT want/care for you to pay the balance back early....but they sure do when the teaser rates are over and your now paying 18%+?

Now the creditors ,harrassment,judements,chapter 11,whatever arises....and then what?

Rinse and repeat every 7 yrs?

Pathetic [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[skindog]

It's starting to amuse me how Shoe's 'I'm doing this to get some extra money on the side cheap so I can invest it' along with 'I have a stable job and good credit history' has been twisted into 'I'm doing this to get a quick buck, and it will inevitably lead to chapter 11 and I don't plan on paying these banks back'.

As for net worth and age, I don't think it's relevant to a discussion about ethics, respect, or anything besides dick swinging in most cases... you can draw a LOT of wrong assumptions very fast about someone based on their net worth and age... but since I have a decent dick to swing I'll bite. I'm 23 (today!) and my net worth is ~150k, but tough to estimate because I'm part owner of a medium sized trucking company.

[Henry17]

[ QUOTE ]
It's starting to amuse me how Shoe's 'I'm doing this to get some extra money on the side cheap so I can invest it' along with 'I have a stable job and good credit history' has been twisted into 'I'm doing this to get a quick buck, and it will inevitably lead to chapter 11 and I don't plan on paying these banks back'.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is borrowing an amount equal to a year's income with the CC scam. He then wants to borrow another $10k on top of that from Prosper.com.

He is 28 and has no capital to invest. That means either his income isn't very high or he is irresponsible with his spending. It doesn't matter.

If something goes bad he is going to be looking at an debt expense that will equal 25-30% of his income. If he hasn't been able to save 25-30% of his income for the last 5 years why do you believe he'll be able to service the debt if his investments go bad?

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As for net worth and age, I don't think it's relevant to a discussion about ethics

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It doesn't and I'd be happy to discuss Kant, Rawls, Utilitarianism etc. But lets be honest. When most people discuss ethics the conversation isn't about ethics as much as it is about self-affirming. As such people who declare bankruptcy are much more likely to feel it is ethical to do so then people who don't. I think there is a strong correlation between people being under 27 and/or having heavy CC debt and seeing Shoe's actions as being acceptable

[mtgordon]

I suck at pollaments. Let me try again.

[mtgordon]

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If something goes bad he is going to be looking at an debt expense that will equal 25-30% of his income. If he hasn't been able to save 25-30% of his income for the last 5 years why do you believe he'll be able to service the debt if his investments go bad?

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[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the advice, but like you suggested, I do not plan to sell anything at this time. However, I do feel fortunate that my stocks have performed as well as they have, and quite frankly, I can't even see them dropping enough to even get me back down to even on this deal. however, if that does happen, I do plan to sell if they drop back down to their purhase price, as I was definitely taking on a lot of risk here and am not willing to lose money on this deal after how well it has started off. Thanks again.

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I believe the plan is to sell if it gets back to break even. While I agree it could have gone badly and wouldn't really recommend doing this in general, Shoe is not going to be defaulting on the loans if he sticks to this plan.

Try taking out your angst on your girlfriends irresponsible friends rather than attacking people on here because you can't read their posts.

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I think there is a strong correlation between people being under 27 and/or having heavy CC debt and seeing Shoe's actions as being acceptable

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Not really sure how to apply the and/or so just go with whichever you think best describes you.

[Henry17]

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I believe the plan is to sell if it gets back to break even. While I agree it could have gone badly and wouldn't really recommend doing this in general, Shoe is not going to be defaulting on the loans if he sticks to this plan.

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Outcome has nothing to do with it. It is confusing from his posts if he has started this or intends to start it. Some of his posts imply he is in the process of doing it. Others it seems like his profits are all on paper and he is starting this for real now.

Even if he is up money it doesn't change the fact that when he started it could have gone either way.

I also just don't believe if he lost his profit he would quit. I've met hundreds of people like Shoe and they never do. If he did he'd be the exception to a very well established pattern.