Emotional Affairs

[tarheeljks]

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That's good. Neither do I. Any adult should be able to do quite a bit of fine-tuning as to where the line should be drawn.

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how do two adults reconcile a scenario where they have drawn two different lines? let's say i treasure the sexual experiences i share w/my wife/gf, and i also think sex with other women is harmless b/c it's purely physical and has no bearing on how i feel about her. then let's say she believes i shouldn't be sexing anyone but her.

what's the deal; is this even reconcilable? you referenced pushing past limitations, is that the case in such a scenario? are you viewing my wife as being close minded, or me as being disingenuous/irreverent?

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Good, and probably common, example. The classic "it was just sex" line comes to mind.

The answer, for me anyway, is the same as any potentially conflicting personality traits. Slobs often can't live with neat freaks. Someone loose with money has problems with a tightwad. Etc.

The difference in views on sex is just another one of those, and yes, it can be an inreconcilable difference in views.

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yeah i agree, those two are probably just not meant to be. let's blur the line

katy mentioned the strip club earlier so i'll go w/that. let's say i like hitting up an sc ~1 a week and playing with the strippers, no sex-- just watching, maybe a lap dance. as b/f i feel it shouldn't have any bearing on the relationship and at the end of the day if she loves me she should trust me and believe that i mean it when i say it is meaningless. she otoh, doesn't want me touching/fawning over any other naked woman than herself and thinks that if i i love her this is a small sacrifice to make in order to keep the relationship in tact.

i think this scenario could be dealt with, as long as she and i were both willing to exercise some empathy, but who should cave?

[bogey1]

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yeah i agree, those two are probably just not meant to be. let's blur the line

katy mentioned the strip club earlier so i'll go w/that. let's say i like hitting up an sc ~1 a week and playing with the strippers, no sex-- just watching, maybe a lap dance. as b/f i feel it shouldn't have any bearing on the relationship and at the end of the day if she loves me she should trust me and believe that i mean it when i say it is meaningless. she otoh, doesn't want me touching/fawning over any other naked woman than herself and thinks that if i i love her this is a small sacrifice to make in order to keep the relationship in tact.

i think this scenario could be dealt with, as long as she and i were both willing to exercise some empathy, but who should cave?

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Well, I suppose the person that cares the least about it. A strip club is sort of a binary thing. Either you go or you don't, so one of you has to step up and say, it's not that big a deal, I give.

If neither will give, then the relationship is over.

Other issues aren't as binary. Say, time spent playing poker bugs my wife (well, not poker, just the time spent). It's not reasonable to say never play, but neither is playing 20 hours a day. We've probably got a compromise spot.

As with most such issues, it's all about communication. Many couples are afraid to communicate on touchy things though because ignorance is bliss to some extent. They fear if they really examine how they each feel, they'll realize the relationship won't work. If they hide from it, the hope maybe it'll go away...

[Blarg]

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Cheating comes from the inside out, not vice-versa.

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Well, it's not quite that simple. Studies have shown impulses are easier to control if you aren't in situations to have to control them. One I recall reading was 2 people were trying to diet (or had a bet, or some such).

One had a plate of cookies next to them. The other didn't. Who do you think slipped up and ate a cookie?

It takes a combination of motive and opporunity for an action to occur.

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Yes, but one is dead without the other. If you don't have the motive, the opportunities are a non-issue.

Do you love your wife and are you truly committed to her? Are you sure you know what that means, for both of you?

If not, again, the main problem has nothing to do with that outside cookie. And you will see a million cookies over your lifetime. If you don't resolve your own problems and understanding to some kind of measured adult understanding, you will invest entirely too much drama in cookies.


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Not sure I'm grasping your point. Are you saying that, if I were congruent/at peace/whatever, then I'd never feel desire for another woman and thus no motive? If so, I can pretty safely say I'll never be that "at peace"... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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No, I'm saying that you will always feel desire no matter where your head is at. You're human, so how can that be avoided? But you can desire someone while being unthreatened by it and even taking it as one of the little joys in life. Why should you not enjoy the beauty or whatever good points people have? It's only if you cling to it and give it indue weight that it matters.

I'm saying your real motives lie deeper than just whatever passes your eye on any particular day, or week, or month, or year. That's why you got married in the first place, isn't it? One hopes, anyway. I'm sure a lot of us got married for different reasons, though. Maybe a whole nine months' worth. In which case all bets are off.

If you are a vegetarian, do you crave meat? If you are in a fight to the death, do you decide you'd rather not pay much attention because you don't like fighting and fighting is hard? Does seeing a little kid alone in a park turn you into a child molestor? If someone leaves a wallet full of cash on a counter somewhere, do you snatch it and keep it? In only half those situations does the decision turn on something you really want(hopefully), but they all turn out how they do because of who you are and what you feel and believe on a deeper level, not because opportunity presents itself. Sometimes there's temptation, sometimes there's not, but life is full of, ahem, opportunities. So what? It's only when you don't know who you are that they present a problem. If they do present a problem, the problem is not, say, that money laying around is tempting, but that you're a thief, and that's what you need to worry about and work on, not that people leave wallets around or that wallets are inherently impossible not to steal. They're incredibly possible not to steal. In this instance, your problem is not wallets, but that you're a thief.

[Blarg]

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And while I think defintions may vary, the litmus test of inappropriate is - would you have behaved differently had your partner been there? Any relationship that you can't tell your partner about necessarily falls into this category.

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I think your post is deeply personalized while mistakenly claiming absolutes, but your litmus tests sounds fine on its face, with one proviso -- your partner can't be the jealous type, or you cannot and will not tell them everything. Which is exactly what they have proven they deserve, because they can't handle anything else, including normal human interactions. "My partner is always right" has limited utility.

But if your partner is fair and reasonable, then fine.

[tarheeljks]

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And while I think defintions may vary, the litmus test of inappropriate is - would you have behaved differently had your partner been there? Any relationship that you can't tell your partner about necessarily falls into this category.

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I think your post is deeply personalized while mistakenly claiming absolutes, but your litmus tests sounds fine on its face, with one proviso -- your partner can't be the jealous type, or you cannot and will not tell them everything. Which is exactly what they have proven they deserve, because they can't handle anything else, including normal human interactions. "My partner is always right" has limited utility.

But if your partner is fair and reasonable, then fine.

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can anyone honestly say that they don't get jealous, esp regarding the affections of someone they care about?

edit: i don't think it's possible not to fear the loss of something you have and want to keep, unless it is never at risk of being taken from you.

also, i thought the point about "relationship masturbation" was spot on and pretty funny

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Nothing wrong with minor flashes of jealousy, but it would suck as a lifestyle. A matter of degree and consistency, and of whether you always vent it on your partner, I guess.

If you're too jealous, of course, not only do you make your partner miserable and give her reason to respect you less, but you will get your partner in a lifelong habit of dishonesty just so she doesn't have to hear your crap. And that will spill over to degrade the rest of your relationship.

[Cobretti]

excellent post.

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Men an women ultimately do not get together to "share cool stuff". It is all a dance to bring us together to mate and ultimately have children.

[/ QUOTE ]Yep. That is exactly what it is. To think otherwise is delusional and dangerous imho.

btw - I loved The Lass Kiss although it was very depressing in its accuracy.

[bogey1]

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can anyone honestly say that they don't get jealous, esp regarding the affections of someone they care about?

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Jealousy is a spectrum. I used to get jealous, but it was out of insecurity and fear. I thought about what I was afraid of and what it might mean, how I might react or deal with it.

Once I went through those things, I realized for the most part I'm not really concerned. My wife can flirt, that doesn't bother me at all. In a sort of roundabout way I feel complimented when another guy thinks my wife is desirable. If she went farther than that, it'd bother me to the extent that I might fear our relationship was failing.

I suppose the bottom line is I trust her and she's a good person. I suspect there's a lot I could forgive because I know her soul is basically good and kind. I'm less likely to forgive something like reckless spending, drug use, or violence. But making a mistake out of love or affection? That I might be able to get over. It'd be a long and difficult talk, but <u>I personally</u> have a hard time holding a grudge against someone for a mistake brought about by a essentially positive emotion like love/affection.

If something happened, I know her nature and know that it wasn't to hurt me. It may or may not mean the end our marriage depending if it meant a change that I wasn't willing to accept (no, honey, you can't have him on the side. That just won't work for me...).

I'd have sadness, dissapointment, probably some anger for a little while, but I don't live in fear of it happening. Consequently, I don't typically feel jealousy.

[Blarg]

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excellent post.

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Men an women ultimately do not get together to "share cool stuff". It is all a dance to bring us together to mate and ultimately have children.

[/ QUOTE ]Yep. That is exactly what it is. To think otherwise is delusional and dangerous imho.

btw - I loved The Lass Kiss although it was very depressing in its accuracy.

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Again, have you never known an unattractive woman?

[Cobretti]

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Again, have you never known an unattractive woman?

[/ QUOTE ]Of course. But I don't have any "cool" relationships with them. What is the point you are trying to make?