PokerTracker Dependency?

[boc4life]

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I'll make this as short as possible.
No.

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Seconded. I 8-table 6-max just fine with/without the use of HUDs.

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I think some people lack your ability

[Hoopster81]

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I'll make this as short as possible.
No.

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Seconded. I 8-table 6-max just fine with/without the use of HUDs.

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I think some people don't hate money

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[boc4life]

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I'll make this as short as possible.
No.

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Seconded. I 8-table 6-max just fine with/without the use of HUDs.

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I think some people don't hate money

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I wish I knew what point you were trying to make, and if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.

To elaborate on my own point though, not everyone can play 8 tables at once, with or without a HUD. To make a blanket statement that says "People won't become dependent on PT because I 8-table 6 max games without a HUD" is just plain wrong, and doesn't attack the heart of the problem

PT and HUDs offer a tremendous advantage, especially to multi-tablers. Advantages that some HUD advocates will tell you are "Impossible to get on your own when playing 4 or more tables". Don't statements like this make people question just how ethical HUDs are?


I've used HUDs before, but I don't anymore. And I think this is more of a case of me WANTING to see HUDs get banned for this reason. I've seen the difference in play on sites going from not having good PT support, to having good PT support. Games are easier when the tool of HUDs are being taken away from people.


Also, I think anyone who is datamining on Party, but is angry at JJProdigy and ZeeJustin, or angry about the SNG bots is a total hypocrite. This is a bit of an unrelated note, but I thought I'd throw it in anyway.

[Hoopster81]

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To elaborate on my own point though, not everyone can play 8 tables at once, with or without a HUD.

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Maybe not, but a greater percentage of people can be winning players 8-tabling with HUDs than without. And those that can win without them, could certainly win MORE with them. That was my point.

[bills217]

In theory, even at a B&M, you could write down a tally mark on a napkin for each hand you were dealt and put a tally mark every time each player entered the pot, and thus could be afforded a crude estimation of VPIP for each player, correct?

Obviously this wouldn't give you the functionality PT and HUD's do, and I can't see anyone realistically doing it, but to my knowledge it wouldn't be against the rules and since (like PT) anyone could do it, I fail to see what is unethical about it.

In a game where you have to constantly push small edges, this seems like just another small edge you have to push to gain an advantage on those who choose not to, IMO.

www.pokertracker.com is not password-protected, anyone can go there.

[boc4life]

While you're not making use of any information which wouldn't have been readily available to you anyway, you are using a program to keep track of all of it, and present it to you neatly. Something that others have said would not be possible when playing 4+ tables


www.winholdem.net
www.pokerprophecy.com
Those sites aren't password-protected either

[bills217]

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www.winholdem.net
www.pokerprophecy.com
Those sites aren't password-protected either

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[destroBU]

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www.winholdem.net
www.pokerprophecy.com
Those sites aren't password-protected either

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That's pretty clever, but... maybe you shouldn't use a 2x actual size jpeg of oranges?

[boc4life]

My problem isn't so much with PT as it is with HUDs. It's unfair to compare PT with either of those sites

But is comparing PokerAce to PokerProphecy all that unfair? PokerProphecy doesn't put out any information that isn't available to everyone. If I wanted to watch every SNG all day, and document winners and losers...I could do that, and hire someone to take over for me while I was busy with other things

A situation like that is only a small bit more ridiculous than me creating a file (or napkin) for every player who I encounter in a cash game. I think it's obvious that people's opinions on things change depending on what they currently use, and what they've used in the past. I don't think HUDs are as innocent as people want to believe

[TheScientist]

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I'll make this as short as possible.
No.

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I guess I'll make this longer than it has to be.

I played live a few nights ago...I don't do this very often, maybe a few times a year. It didn't take more than about 10-15 hands to have most opponents nailed; the guy on tilt raising A4o preflop out of position. The guy who will bet any two cards if checked to. The fish who plays every hand and only bets with something closely resembling the nuts. The calling station, who calls down my UTG raise on an AK8 board with a pair of 4's to the river. This isn't rocket science. To suggest that we need pokertracker to make these types of reads is laughable. It helps us by reminding us who we're playing against, makes it easy to play a lot of tables at once, gives us a quick look at a known player just joining the table, etc. It is not something we use just because we're unable to get a clue on our opponents, it's simply a tool that makes life easier.