CHILLIN W/ MY BOY "BOTTOM SET" - Page 2

Lady Dont Tekno · #11 04-21-2006, 11:15 AM

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most turns are going to either put you behind or take away your action.

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If I raise the flop and get called, the same cards will STILL kill my action. It's not like a A7 is stacking off on the flop anyway.

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i'm not sure how i feel about this. you're reasoning seems sound but against 2 opponents I have to believe raising the flop is standard.

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ez push skeme, especially because you slowplayed (ok im pushing anyway even if you hadnt)

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Nobody would ever raise less than all in?

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actually i think pushing is pretty bad w/ the button on an obvious draw. i think you should raise smaller to charge him, but hopefully it'll keep him in.

-Skeme- · #12 04-21-2006, 11:24 AM

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yea but you got value out of it already.

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Yeah, but they fold to the raise.

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what are you thinking, a minraise? if you minraise you have what, like $200 behind in a $600 pot?

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Yeah, that'd not give correct odds and stand a much better chance of getting called.

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if he's good (see read) he's probably folding his draw either way, unless he has A, in which case he calls a push too.

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There's no way he calls a push with just the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], IMO.

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you're reasoning seems sound but against 2 opponents I have to believe raising the flop is standard.

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I agree, but the overall concept in his argument is what I was debating. I still think raising the flop should be done more often than not, perhaps every time.

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actually i think pushing is pretty bad w/ the button on an obvious draw. i think you should raise smaller to charge him, but hopefully it'll keep him in.

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Yeah..

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed)

UTG+1 ($257.25)
MP1 ($115.80)
MP2 ($233.85)
MP3 ($196)
Hero ($460.75)
Button ($586.25)
SB ($394.60)
BB ($118.40)
UTG ($86.40)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises to $8, Button calls $8, 1 fold, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets $10, Hero calls $10, Button calls $10.

Turn: ($55) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $38, Button calls $38, BB raises to $100.4, Hero raises to $162.8, Button calls $124.80.

River: ($481) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero ??
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Minrepopped it, babies. Button took FOREVER to call, babies. What now.. babies. Easy poosh? Viddalue bet? What's crackin?

Lady Dont Tekno · #13 04-21-2006, 11:34 AM

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Minrepopped it, babies. Button took FOREVER to call, babies. What now.. babies. Easy poosh? Viddalue bet? What's crackin?

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ok let's see. don't push. if he was on the [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]'s w/ no A he's probably done /w the hand. I think i'd make a really small bet like $90-$130 and hope he either had Ax [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 56 and makes a crying call. oh and if by some magical chance he has 58 i would just kill myself.

swarm · #14 04-21-2006, 12:20 PM

First off many shortstacked villans at 1/2 will get it in with top pair.

This is a great time to rep a combo draw. Your deep with Button in there. You have a set on a coordinated board. You need to build a pot if Button has an overpair, and protect your hand by charging his draws properly.

I would have not donk raised the turn like that, especially out of position, this seems fishy and easy to to me. Are you honestly not paying anything off if a ugly card comes on the river. There are combo draws out there that you are giving immediate odds to.

I really hate setting myself up for a real uncomfortable situation on the river.

-Skeme- · #15 04-21-2006, 12:22 PM

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There are combo draws out there that you are giving immediate odds to.

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I didn't (and don't now) think his range included superdraws, so I wasn't worried about some random crazy combination. He took super long to call, I think he'd call quicker than that with a premium draw, and I don't think he'd call PF with 56[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 85[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] even with our stacks being so deep.

swarm · #16 04-21-2006, 12:54 PM

Playing deepstacked why not? I play all types of hands like that when I'm deepstacked in position versus a fellow deepstack.

Your turn line is such a "call me" line that it is translucent as to what you have. He may not have immediate odds but it's razor thin in your favor and he only needs to rake in a blocking or value bet off you if he hits on the river to make calling correct. More importantly villans will make far Worse Calls giving you more value if you raise more. At least make the turn 200 if not 250 total.

I can't name the times in 2/4 or 3/6 nl 6max where villans have made 3/4 to near full pot calls on the turn to hit or miss their bare flush draw. Your laying them 2.85 - 1 on the turn call, I think your missing value and under estimating the implied odds.

I ususally try and give my obviously drawing villans at best 2-1 on the turn (= to making it 225 on turn in this hand) as I have found that they make this call all the time thus giving me more value.

-Skeme- · #17 04-21-2006, 01:00 PM

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Playing deepstacked why not? I play all types of hands like that when I'm deepstacked in position versus a fellow deepstack.

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I don't think he understands deep stack theory. I think he's a normal player who doesn't understand implied odds. I haven't noticed him calling any of my other raises, I'd give him a decent hand here.

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Your turn line is such a "call me" line that it is translucent as to what you have.

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You'd put me on a set of twos after my turn action? I agree with the majority of the other things you said.

pologuy64 · #18 04-21-2006, 01:09 PM

pussssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

-Skeme- · #19 04-21-2006, 01:19 PM

Please don't give advice that's already been discussed unless you're going to respond with new reasoning.

DJ Sensei · #20 04-21-2006, 01:27 PM

I think villain's most likely holding is A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]X[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. could be 2 pair, could be TPGK, could be TPNK.

In any case, you've shown a lot of strength now, so I don't think he's gonna bluff. I think bet as much as he'll crying-call, maybe $150.