Analysis of a downswing

[Paul Thomson]

BalugaWhale-

I thought this was great post. I think you've done a good job in addressing your leaks. With your mentality in the long run, I'm sure you'll be a winning player.

I thought I'd start the "discussion" on your emphasis about position. I think you might be OVER valueing the role of position and aggression in the games that you play. When you say, "So, I plan on tightening up SIGNIFICANTLY utg... and continuing to play my loose, raising style from LP." I think you are right to tighten up UTG, but I also think you should tighten up in late position, regardless of the action to you. The DECEPTION and IMAGE value gained by loose play in late position amounts to Fancy Play Syndrome in small stakes poker (regardless of full ring or 6max). DECEPTION is important if your opponents are playing your cards and not their own. But at SS, the vast majority of your opponents will not put you on a hand at all, instead they'll simply play their own cards and poorly probably at that. On a similar note, your IMAGE as a loose player is only important if you want your opponents to pay you off with mediocre holdings. The fact of that matter is that is the most common leak among small stakes players which is why value betting is so important. Your opponents will call you down with underpairs all day. So their is absolutely no reason to have to play marginal hands yourself in position. Simply play a tight game on the button and value bet, value bet and value bet.

In terms of playing OOP, I think it's not only important to play tight, but I also think it's important to control the size of the pot. I've found that playing a WA/WB type line, when OOP is often profitable. For example, if you raise with AQo UTG and the button calls. If the flop comes with Q high and theirs no flush or straight draw on the board, I suggest that you simply check-call. Your opponent will almost surely bet into you whether he has anything or not. I then might lead the turn or even check-call the turn depending on the habits of my opponent. On the other hand, if you call UTG with TJs and the button raises and you call. If the flops comes T high, then I'll lead the flop to protect my hand.

Another way I keep the pot small when OOP is to bet 3/4 of the pot vs a full pot with top pair hands. By making 3/4 bet sizes on the flop and turn will keep the pot significantly smaller, then making full size pots. This size bet will still usually not give your opponent the correct odds to call with most draws.

The last tactic I use to keep the pot small UTG is by making slightly smaller preflop raises of 3xBB. This will keep pots surprisingly significantly smaller when playing OOP.

I hope this helps and might get the discussion going on position. GL at building your bankroll.

PT

[Gobgogbog]

[ QUOTE ]
This next comment is something I'd really like some discussion on:
The key to solving the problem of being too loose is to emphasize position.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few days ago, or maybe longer, you posted something I really didn't understand. Someone asked how much to open with preflop, and you said you sometimes go as high as 5BB when UTG. This is backwards, IMO -- I open raise to 3BB UTG and UTG+1 usually, and do 4BB and sometimes 5BB from the later positions, depending on the table. This keeps the pots smaller when I have to cbet OOP and larger when I get to cbet in position.

[BalugaWhale]

I think on your AQ example, I definitely C-bet. Like you said, value betting is key. I think there are good cases for leading turn and river, c/c turn and river, c/c turn and leading river, or leading turn and c/c river, depending on the villain.

[CallYNotRaise06]

i dont like to take gambling shots at a higher level. (IMO, the first time you move up to a higher level, you usually lose because the money is bigger) I would much rather wait untill i have 20+ buy ins, 50k+winning hands, and a good win rate before i move up. Ive seen first hand what happens when you gamble to move up, run good for a while, then hit the wall and go BUSTO.

to the OP, i hope you learn alot from going broke. I know i did both times i went broke. I really enjoyed reading this post because it reminded me that even thougth im running quite well right now, theres still that risk, and i hav to make sure i make good decisions for my bankroll. good luck man, im sure youll be back at it in no time.

[AllIn3High]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont like to take gambling shots at a higher level. (IMO, the first time you move up to a higher level, you usually lose because the money is bigger) I would much rather wait untill i have 20+ buy ins, 50k+winning hands, and a good win rate before i move up. Ive seen first hand what happens when you gamble to move up, run good for a while, then hit the wall and go BUSTO.

to the OP, i hope you learn alot from going broke. I know i did both times i went broke. I really enjoyed reading this post because it reminded me that even thougth im running quite well right now, theres still that risk, and i hav to make sure i make good decisions for my bankroll. good luck man, im sure youll be back at it in no time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to emphasize that you should only take a shot with PART of your roll. Do not go 100% busto.

[Paul Thomson]

I couldn't agree more!!

[zaphod]

Good post. But i kind of disagree here:


[ QUOTE ]
Somebody once posted on here that folding AQ UTG in 6-max wouldn't really be leaving much money on the table, if any. I think they're right (I still raise AQ UTG 6max, but I certainly think twice about AJ now., and, after all... AQ is just a trumped up AJ )


[/ QUOTE ]


AQ and AJ is clear raises in most situations for me even UTG in 6 max.

[Mercman572]

Baluga, for me I have always required at least 25 buyins at a level before I gave it a shot. It's just me but I'm pretty sure I'll never go bust. You should also be wary of high variance plays when your roll can't take a substantial downswing (having >25 buyins reduces this worry significantly). I've been drinking, but I think my post is coherent enough, so somebody point out it it's not.

[Paul Thomson]

[ QUOTE ]
I think on your AQ example, I definitely C-bet. Like you said, value betting is key. I think there are good cases for leading turn and river, c/c turn and river, c/c turn and leading river, or leading turn and c/c river, depending on the villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you think that on a dry board that an opponent will call you with a weaker hand? And what do you do if your opponent raises?

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
Good post. But i kind of disagree here:


[ QUOTE ]
Somebody once posted on here that folding AQ UTG in 6-max wouldn't really be leaving much money on the table, if any. I think they're right (I still raise AQ UTG 6max, but I certainly think twice about AJ now., and, after all... AQ is just a trumped up AJ )


[/ QUOTE ]


AQ and AJ is clear raises in most situations for me even UTG in 6 max.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is for me, too, but that doesnt mean the theory is wrong.

At least, not very wrong. AQ is a pretty good hand at 6m against 5 random hands. But it's value decreases dramatically as the number of opponents increases beyond zero, and also as you position becomes more and more OOP. It's for these reasons that I'd say that the OP was right. Not for the reasons most people would comclude: that AQ doesn't have much value. It does have value. It also has big vulerabilities and is easily overplayed.