Affiliate convention in Amsterdam-discussions of rakeback

[Pokeraddict]

nothing personal against RRR, but unless they agreed to operate as a non profit site, why should they get preferential treatment about being the only place to advertise rakeback? (I doubt the owners would like to give up the probably substantial income generated)

No offense taken at all but I'm not sure I understand this statement.

As for being the only place to advertise rakeback I think most affiliates will tell you RRR and 2+2 are about the only effective places to advertise it. Most large poker forums will not allow outside affiliate advertising because they have their own agendas which conflict. I think most will agree those few other forums that allow rb advertising turn out to be a waste of money most if not all of the time. I have wasted many thousands of dollars trying and I know many others have too. I seriously doubt there will be any growth in places to advertise rb. My opinion is biased but I think most affiliates agree that more directories arent the answer either. The only answer is more places to advertise in existing large communities which will probably never happen.

RRR ran non profit at first as more of a player advocate site for its first 2 months and I honestly didnt think it would ever make more then a few hundred dollars a month. I did it because I am pro player which probably stems from my long time involvement in the Casinomeister community. Obviously there was an unexpected, massive amount of demand for it and IMO it took RRR or a site like it that surely would have launched eventually to help get rakeback out in the open and help this industry boom as it is now. I still am baffled by the explosive growth it had.

Keep in mind before RRR virtually all affiliates worked out of gmail accounts or forum private messages without any real check and balance. Now it is close to a full time job, I seriously doubt anyone would do it for free. I quit a very profitable propping situation because I no longer had time to do it, well, I was burned out too. The advertising money has to come from somewhere and the work it takes to keep RRR a Google authority site is not easy. There are more hours of work in the content and publishing then most will ever know. This is why content thieves are such a pet peeve to me.

I guess that got a bit OT. I'm happy to discuss openly a way to improve RRR. I always run major changes by affiliates on a majority rules vote but most ideas get voted down. This either tells me RRR is doing well as is or my ideas suck. I'm always open for suggestions on how to improve RRR and feedback positive or negative from anyone. If nobody tells me what they dont like I cant improve.

[Pokeraddict]

Oh, I almost forgot. I have heard nothing but positive about the presentation RTR and Rakerebate.net gave. I wish I could have been there to help in it but there is just too much going on. Congrats to you two for a job well done.

[AAAA]

There are poker portals that have been advertising for poker players for a long time. There are many who advertise rake discounts in some fashion.

The only reason I brought it up was there was a comment that RRR should be the only "legal" place to advertise rake back. That wouldn't be logical or fair.

Believe me, I know a site like yours takes work.

The discussion here about initial referral period and long term residuals is the answer to my mind. It is kind of a hybrid that encourages people to market for new players but protects the affiliate until they have recouped their expenses and made a profit.

networks can then spend time enforcing the one account per network rule and allow players to migrate to new sites that perform better or offer innovative games or tourneys. The new site will get the skin share of the profit, because the customer chose the color scheme or the promotion, but the original affiliate who brought the player still gets paid.

Above all, the customer gets an automatic site sponsored rebate after they have paid their dues.

[Pokeraddict]

Ah, I understand completely. I am on both sides about competition. Even when I had a monopoly I never treated it like it, but when the other directories started appearing it certainly made me try even harder to do the best I can. I hope it even gave existing advertisers an idea of just how hard I try to please them since there was something to compare it to. It took some time for me to adjust to it though and see it that way, I certainly admit that. I have always been over zealous in protecting my work and other's work.

[Sniper]

Beanie... this discussion would be more useful if you stated who you were

[beanie]

My name is Paul Nobles but most people do indeed know me as Beanie. Frequent readers from www.pocketfives.com know who I am. I run a fairly large rakeback program. Many of the sites on 2+2 use my links as do many non-rakeback sites. My expertise is network marketing and I have never spent 1 cent advertising. With all due respect to everyone else, technology wise my site may be the best communication tool in the rakeback world.

I was one of the first to cashout people as they accumulate rake and provide an interface that was more than just a stat accumulator. My site is essentially built to move my players to where the best value is for them. I benefited from being a player on the WPT and many of the best known players in poker play underneath some of my codes and often time are my biggest sub affiliates.

My sub affiliates are essentially hosts for thier players and have the ability to communicate with them through my interface (through instant message or e-mails typically). Our collective emphasis is to create a red carpet experience for the customer similar to the way a casino host might operate in Vegas.

I have worked as a consultant and/or affiliate for over 3 years.

[MicroBob]

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The Party Poker people came in late for the meeting (which seemed odd since they are against rakeback) after talking to all involved it was apparent they were there just to yell at us.

[/ QUOTE ]


How classy.
While you basically say 'you can't blame them' I say that I DO blame them.
Showing up late and yelling at people both strike me as extremely unprofessional.


I don't care whether they are the biggest site or whether they have 2 tables going during peak hours....that is no way to act no matter who you are.


The TruePokerCEO had mentioned in the internet-forum that he was going to be attending this as well and would report in. I'll be interested to hear his take on the conference.


Curious if there is much talk about the WSEX 100% rakeback thing.



FWIW - I had been a long-time player at Party who is no longer playing there AT ALL because of RB at other sites.

[Olback]

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As for being the only place to advertise rakeback I think most affiliates will tell you RRR and 2+2 are about the only effective places to advertise it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would just like to say that I strongly disagree with this statement. I also run a rakeback and incentives directory and i have many satisfied customers who find advertising with me effective. I also have recieved much positive feedback from advertisers and customers a like saying that they are glad that there is more then 1 directory available.

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As for being the only place to advertise rakeback I think most affiliates will tell you RRR and 2+2 are about the only effective places to advertise it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would just like to say that I strongly disagree with this statement. I also run a rakeback and incentives directory and i have many satisfied customers who find advertising with me effective. I also have recieved much positive feedback from advertisers and customers a like saying that they are glad that there is more then 1 directory available.

[/ QUOTE ]

My statement had to do with the lack of sites like 2+2 to effectively advertise as you see if you read on. I can see how that phrase by itself could be misunderstood.

[beanie]

There was literally no discussion of WSEX. I think it is really an irrelevant move by a virtually irrelevant cardroom. Rake only matters to a very small amount of people. I view PokerShare as a much more relevant room option for rake because while they are giving away a lot of money and value they are retaining some for marketing. There indeed was a lot of buzz about PokerShare-whether it takes a while or a short term they certainly are courting us rakeback guys.

The Party thing didn't start as disrespectful and there clearly were people that wanted to argue. I really hope I didn't appear to be one of them because I 100% can see Party's position I just think their ego is out of control at the moment and it clouds their thinking on this particular issue. Party does indeed bring in more new customers to the industry than anyone else but the two ideas are opposite and Party seems to want to think everyone should be canvassing super markets trying to convert Grandmothers. The first person to speak-I genuinely believe that he believes what he was saying but he doesn't get all of the memos in regards to rakeback. If Party Poker doesn't welcome rakeback then so be it-they tried to frame the argument with their agenda which is that they spend a lot of money and they are frustrated that many of us are sending their big players to other sites.

All I know is this-if I had 3 Billion with a "B" most [censored] would not piss me off. I think ultimately they are fighting a losing fight. I made a bet that Party Poker will end its affiliate program (and got steep odds) the reason for the bet is simple-without ending things completely they will continue to deal with issues regarding rakeback and there certainly are people at Party that would like to be done with the issue entirely.