A kind of rambling C/T post

[DavidC]

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So, it would be ok to feel entitled to X% of the pot, since you can expect to win that often.

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Very good point. Likewise, when you make a mistake and it costs you 15% of a bet... sure, correct it, but it's not the end of the world or anything, in terms of hourly rate and your life. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DavidC]

One problem that I have is the "dead zone"... where I kinda go into a minor coma while playing poker. This is whether I'm winning or losing, I become emotionally dead, and is always done in live games, generally either in no-limit games or in short-handed limit games (i.e. games where bluffing matters more than in other games).

The effects of this, I think, are that I become a lot less readable, but I look a lot more miserable, and that's not good for table image, game preservation, etc.

I've seen some older oriental men play and they just look patient, wise, and "emotionally centered", which I think is a whole lot better than looking "emotionally dead".

I shouldtry to cultivate this approach rather than my current approach. Anyone with suggestions on how to do this, I'd appreciate it.

[DavidC]

a post I made in psych

A side-branch of this topic, I think.

[J. Stew]

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detached thinking

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I know what you mean, I think a Zen master would say, be non-attached, not detached. Non-attached would mean you transcend your own thinking/feeling, like notice that you are feeling this feeling of entitlement and just notice how it affects your play. Transcend means to go beyond, but include that which you go beyond, which in this case is your feeling of entitlement. So being non-attached would be to just notice all the thoughts and feelings that come up over a sesh and just notice what it going on. Detached is like being dead to your own feelings which is no good I think. Detached happens when you try to change your feelings or thoughts because you don't want to go on tilt or think tilt is bad, but to not 'feel', deadens you, so it's best to transcend thought by just noticing what you're thinking/feeling. If you accept the fact that you get pissed when you get sucked out on, you transcend it, if you get frustrated that you're getting pissed, and so you try to just not 'feel', ya get effed-up IMO. So to me, transcend is include everything, even 'bad' feelings, and detached means you have some aversion to the fact that you're pissed so you tell yourself not to get pissed which deadens you and pisses your girlfriend off. My two cents.

-Stew

[jaxUp]

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[ QUOTE ]
detached thinking

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you mean, I think a Zen master would say, be non-attached, not detached. Non-attached would mean you transcend your own thinking/feeling, like notice that you are feeling this feeling of entitlement and just notice how it affects your play. Transcend means to go beyond, but include that which you go beyond, which in this case is your feeling of entitlement. So being non-attached would be to just notice all the thoughts and feelings that come up over a sesh and just notice what it going on. Detached is like being dead to your own feelings which is no good I think. Detached happens when you try to change your feelings or thoughts because you don't want to go on tilt or think tilt is bad, but to not 'feel', deadens you, so it's best to transcend thought by just noticing what you're thinking/feeling. If you accept the fact that you get pissed when you get sucked out on, you transcend it, if you get frustrated that you're getting pissed, and so you try to just not 'feel', ya get effed-up IMO. So to me, transcend is include everything, even 'bad' feelings, and detached means you have some aversion to the fact that you're pissed so you tell yourself not to get pissed which deadens you and pisses your girlfriend off. My two cents.

-Stew

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cool. Yeah the "non-attached" thing is what I am talking about in OP. Unfortunately I am not a zen-master, and can't come up with good ways of articulating this ish.

[jaxUp]

Also, now I > tiltaholic. Officialy.

[DavidC]

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Also, now I > tiltaholic. Officialy.

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Realizing this is the first step towards becoming that Zen Master you were talking about. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[car ramrod]

missed this last night.
Great post Brad

I have been working on this and feel I am getting better. One strange thing I find, for me atleast, is that I don't get as upset when I get sucked out on by a fish making a terrible play. I almost feel bad for the guy b/c I am amazed at how bad he is, and how much money he has to be losing.
What does bother me is when a good tag makes a play at me. Part of my problem with this lately has been my running very poorly. I may feel like tags are making plays at me, when in reality they probably just have good hands, and I am missing my hands.

I do get upset when I am not winning, b/c I know I am playing good poker, and I feel entitled to win money. But during my downswing I would rather lose my money to fish than tags. I guess b/c I know I can always get it back from the fish. That is probably why I quit playing at Absolute. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
For me, during my big downswing, I tried to play thru it at Absolute, thinking it has to end sooner or later, and I think it made it harder on me. Once I switched back to Party, I felt better, even though I was still losing, I did not feel like a bunch of tags were making plays at me. I really think that is what helped me get out of my downswing.

anway, just some thoughts, would like to see more added to this post.

[KingOtter]

I feel your pain car... and great post, Jax.

I've been doing some mental-struggling lately... my winning history had given me that sense of entitlement and I do think I was feeling it on nearly every hand. So when luck swung away from me (FAR away from me) it was extremely frustrating. I felt like Hellmuth acts, 'What are you kidding me? Another 3-outter!' So basically I wasn't playing much.

I also think I was playing entitlement poker. Playing hands I normally wouldn't, making bets I normally wouldn't because I felt entitled. Then my table image would suffer and the whole table would make plays at me. That combined with the bad luck meant they would hit their hands, even when I had something, and still beat me. Snowball effect crushing my game.

Thanks for the post, it's a good mental awareness.

KO

[bennyhana]

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Fantastic post. I think everything I was going to say has already been said.

Reading this thread puts many things into perspective. It 's nice to know other players (presumably winning players) have the same problems as I am having. Almost seems like November and December are official downswing months.

Thank you, Brad, for your time spent in the micros. Your posts are definately +EV.