QTip confuses me.

[W. Deranged]

In situations like this against Tagish players, I will very often raise this turn bet.

The main reason is that turn donks seem so often to be bluffs or attempts by marginal hands to find protection and/or a cheaper showdown. It's a play I'll use sometimes: check-calling the flop and donking the turn, intending to fold to a raise as a way of getting a 1 bb "effective showdown."

The problem is this: the pot is only about 5 bb. You're risking 2 bb to win 5, though you'll catch up occasionally. Even still, I think you need to be sure Q is making this move and will fold to a raise like 16-20% to even consider raising here.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]

What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I'm folding the turn.

[badbill7]

I think its pretty obvious that q knows you style of play, since you said so yourself and has an 8 or some low pp. This bet is to get you out and him hu vesus guy who sucks. If you raise turn here he throws away. It doesnt seem so complicated to me that with small pot here he is going for the play that effectively protects his hand against you. He could care less about the other guy so its a ww situation. Maybye he gets both to fold and gets pot or iso the weak guy. If you want i can call him and ask him though since he lives right by me

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
If you want i can call him and ask him though since he lives right by me

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what he had. QTip plays goot.

[badbill7]

then why are you confused

[7stud]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on people. Try to put him on a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

AQo or KQo

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Come on people. Try to put him on a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

AQo or KQo

[/ QUOTE ]

No chance. He 3-bets those pre-flop and/or he bets or raises with them on the flop.

[cantsitstillbr]

I think he is hoping you will raise so he can 3-bet you.

[QTip]

Well...

I had ATs spades.

I think most of us will raise something like 88 there on the flop.

I wasn't real sure on the size of Octopus' range to iso with there, but mine is very large. With a raggy flop like that, I know he's betting just about anything he raised with, even more so that Q8 is showing and free card might do him good.

I considered raising the flop, but declined for a couple reason. Calling there is confusing. If the donk has any peice, chances are he's sticking around, and I'm stuck oop on the turn having initiative w/o much purpose.

There's also a decent chance that Octopus will check the turn after I call if I decide to check. At that point, I get a chance to bluff a friendly river. I did decide tho, that if we were HU, I would bet any spade to put preasure on a better hand, and also because if his range is as large as mine, I have the best hand there more often than not. I do play some other hands this way, but most are quite strong, and with the donk, I'd be more apt to lead/call/donk. However, I may play some Q this way now and then as well.

Octopus is in a tough spot here with AJo. AKo, raising the turn would seem best to me. AJo meh. The pot is rather small.

However, if there were 2 QTips at the table, button QTip would have raised BB QTip here.

This is just tough for someone that doesn't know A LOT about how the other player plays in these spots. And, if I know that Octopus will make the turn raise with a better Ace, I may donk the river even if I miss.

I think you're fold is fine here as there are just too many variables you don't have answered.

[cantsitstillbr]

33 or Ts9s/JsTs ??? Am I right?