Super big pot with KK and a ragged flop

[Jaran]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lovely table. I would raise the flop. (But you might want to look at the conversion. Something is wrong with the flop action). I think a more interesting question is how to respond to a 3bet (which really hinges a lot on who treys). There really is no way to protect your hand too much in a pot this size, so value is the key.

-J

[/ QUOTE ]

In general I'd go with easy cap for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, I agree. But if the original flop bettor is the one who treys, I can see smoothcalling and planning on popping the turn.

-J

[maverickai]

No one's mentioning that we might be facing an AA here?

[maverickai]

[ QUOTE ]
Just encountered a hand in a very big pot. Players are loose:

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">HERO 3-bets</font>,<font color="#666666"> 5 folds</font>, Button calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 caps</font>, HERO calls, Button calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (21.5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> UTG calls, UTG+1 calls,
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">HERO ??</font>


My question is, do I try to protect my hand here, or raise for value?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I've amended the error on the flop.

[kerowo]

[ QUOTE ]
No one's mentioning that we might be facing an AA here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly, but you don't have the reads to lay it down. Winning these types of hands is the positive side of variance, losing them, not so much.

[marchron]

[ QUOTE ]
people are getting odds to call with a hamster.

[/ QUOTE ]
NC Thread Title Nominee.

[maverickai]

[ QUOTE ]
three things:

2. please fix the conversion, im assuming 3 players checked on the turn?

3. who is the girl in your avatar?

[/ QUOTE ]

2. Fixed.

3. Honey Lee, Miss Korea 2006

[maverickai]

Actually this was a hand I lifted directly from SSHE, Pg 164, under the chapter of Post Flop Concepts: "Protecting your hand when the pot is extremely large."

I was trying to understand, with respect to Micros forum way of playing, what would be the best approach. Raising? Or just calling, and wait to raise on the turn?

SSHE advocates calling on the flop, before raising on the turn, cos raising on the flop would "put 24.5 bets in the pot. It was 2 bets to call, so his opponents were getting over 12-to-1 to call. Offering 12-to-1 does not protect a hand against weak draws."

But if I were to play, I would have raised on the flop, getting all the value in as my equity is big here. thoughts?

[maverickai]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lovely table. I would raise the flop. (But you might want to look at the conversion. Something is wrong with the flop action). I think a more interesting question is how to respond to a 3bet (which really hinges a lot on who treys). There really is no way to protect your hand too much in a pot this size, so value is the key.

-J

[/ QUOTE ]

In general I'd go with easy cap for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, I agree. But if the original flop bettor is the one who treys, I can see smoothcalling and planning on popping the turn.

-J

[/ QUOTE ]

And Jaran, you said you will call a 3bet on the flop, and raise the turn again. Given there is so much strength shown from the original flop bettor, wont' HERO be bleeding too much if facing AA?

[JJack]

Waiting until turn to protect this huge pot make sense when you are sure that villain will still betting at turn. If you are not sure raise is better IMO (he could just c-bet AK and he wont bet turn)

[petsa]

I would raise the flop, for value. If villain reraises the flop and bets the turn, I would call down.

If villain checks the turn after hero calling flop 3-bet, would check behind, and bet after villain checking the river. On the other hand, I bet the turn if villain is not a TAG and doesn't use C/R much.

I'm not worried about AA just yet. If flop is reraised after hero's raise, and there is a turn bet, this is definitely scary.

With no reads, I would take this more cautious line (after flop, that is). Against a LAGgy villain I might reraise turn, after calling a flop 3-bet.