to VB .. or not to VB .. that is my question

[doppelganger]

[ QUOTE ]
If UTG leads the turn for 1/2-2/3rds if I take this line I tend to fold and kick something...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Seems like a standard fold, you have basically nothing but A high in that situation. If he can donk that turn with AJ then more power to him, but I'd say most times you'd be beat and making a correct fold.

I check through. Spike a Q and scoop the bluffs you just induced from AT. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Last Chapter]

I try to err on the side of value betting more often than may be correct. People love to make bad decisions.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
Check. Double barreling this guy is spew, we have alot of equity, lets see a river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo - so if we do that we get to the river with the same potsize as in the OP hand - this guy is standard weekend table Party donk and I doubt he notices that much of a difference whether we CB the flop and check the turn or check the turn and CB the flop. Or is that bad thinking?

Hence my not CBing the totally whiffed flop but "CBing" the scarey turn when I gots outs to a great hand.

[ama0330]

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Why doesnt hero CB?

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop check is fine imo, board is pretty non threatening. I think betting is fine on this river but not mandatory, its probably a 0EV play. Make it half pot or less.

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
Bingo - so if we do that we get to the river with the same potsize as in the OP hand - this guy is standard weekend table Party donk and I doubt he notices that much of a difference whether we CB the flop and check the turn or check the turn and CB the flop. Or is that bad thinking?

Hence my not CBing the totally whiffed flop but "CBing" the scarey turn when I gots outs to a great hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really agree with this and I bet the turn when the king comes off in the second hand history.

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check. Double barreling this guy is spew, we have alot of equity, lets see a river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo - so if we do that we get to the river with the same potsize as in the OP hand - this guy is standard weekend table Party donk and I doubt he notices that much of a difference whether we CB the flop and check the turn or check the turn and CB the flop. Or is that bad thinking?

Hence my not CBing the totally whiffed flop but "CBing" the scarey turn when I gots outs to a great hand.

[/ QUOTE ]no... u gave him a free card to hit top pair. he can have a lot of Kx hands that u r ahead of on the flop. now u r behind all of those dramatically. now on the turn instead of u betting with probably the best and and if not u still have at least 2 overs and will normally get to see and turn and river to improve. by checking the flop u allow villian to catch up with worse hands that now obv call the turn after improving.

imo after checking the flop i check the turn too rather then delay cbet it. the king was about as bad a card as coulda hit imo and helps his range a lot.

[Speedlimits]

pretty standard c-bet
as played bet river

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If UTG leads the turn for 1/2-2/3rds if I take this line I tend to fold and kick something...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Seems like a standard fold, you have basically nothing but A high in that situation. If he can donk that turn with AJ then more power to him, but I'd say most times you'd be beat and making a correct fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

implied odds.

Thats why I kick something - If I don't autopilot CB the flop and villain donks the turn I have a bunch of outs that it's probably +EV to chase seeing as the rare times I spike my 3 outter vs this kind of player I can stack him on the river with my nut straight.

If he leads the turn after I CB the flop I have no implied odds worth shouting about - also as well as my 3 big money outs I probably have 7 further outs (J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Aces and Queens) where I make enough of a hand to drag a small/medium pot as well. So when I have to make the "correct" fold cos this villain autocalls flop bets spikes TPNK and decides to bet into me and I have 10 outs enticing me to call, but I can't cos the implieds have evaporated it's annoying.

(which in a very large nutshell is why I didn't CB the flop)