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#12
10-25-2007, 10:20 AM
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Re: flop monster turn is potential bad card
[ QUOTE ]
Shove. Jesus. You've got the biggest realistic boat. Plenty worse calls. [censored] him and his mother if he has quads. [/ QUOTE ] QFMFT, stop being supernits for no reason. 
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#13
10-25-2007, 10:25 AM
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Re: flop monster turn is potential bad card
[ QUOTE ]
why (aside from the fact the hand was posted) is everyone assuming we are beat??? Come on guys and gals...monsters do hide under the bed but in this case we have a big enough monster to comfortably fistpump...put it this way...with the action as is why do we even think the villan puts us on a hand as strong as we have? limp pre...flop check....probe turn....he could have called with air or even KQ KJ and think he sucked out here! [/ QUOTE ] I know what you are sayin and I do agree it might seem weak tight only callin here with *basically* the 2nd nuts I would never hve played it this way from the start But now that i have played it this way I would prob smooth call here Alot of money should have got in on the flop though
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#15
10-25-2007, 11:08 AM
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Re: flop monster turn is potential bad card
[ QUOTE ]
Shove. Jesus. You've got the biggest realistic boat. Plenty worse calls. [censored] him and his mother if he has quads. [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
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#16
10-25-2007, 11:20 AM
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Re: flop monster turn is potential bad card
Small blind here may not call the shove. Min-raise him!!. That commits his whole stack, allows him to get the rest in.
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#17
10-25-2007, 11:25 AM
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Re: flop monster turn is potential bad card
[ QUOTE ]
Small blind here may not call the shove. Min-raise him!!. That commits his whole stack, allows him to get the rest in. [/ QUOTE ] Nah. If you shove, he's going to scratch his head and think that you think he's stealing and call thinking you have a smaller pair. Minraising here, I think, minimizes expectation a lot. You'll get looked up 100% of the time, but he can still call and have plenty of chips. Shoving is like hero saying "WTF, does he have a king, well, I have 99!" You don't need to be called 100% of the time for the shove to be more +EV. Less. Barry
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#18
10-25-2007, 12:05 PM
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Re: flop monster turn is potential bad card
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Small blind here may not call the shove. Min-raise him!!. That commits his whole stack, allows him to get the rest in. [/ QUOTE ] Nah. If you shove, he's going to scratch his head and think that you think he's stealing and call thinking you have a smaller pair. Minraising here, I think, minimizes expectation a lot. You'll get looked up 100% of the time, but he can still call and have plenty of chips. Shoving is like hero saying "WTF, does he have a king, well, I have 99!" You don't need to be called 100% of the time for the shove to be more +EV. Less. Barry [/ QUOTE ] If you were stealing you would have done it on the flop or the turn. If he has anything good he's gonna get it all in. If he doesn't he won't call a shove. If you shove he doens't necessarily stack off with a small pair. He may call a min-raise however. His bet stinks like a block bet to get to showdown. I want him to look us up 100% of the time. Just because you hate the move, don't mean this this ins't the place. Come on Barry... be a min-raising donk once in your life.
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#19
10-25-2007, 12:16 PM
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Re: flop monster turn is potential bad card
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Small blind here may not call the shove. Min-raise him!!. That commits his whole stack, allows him to get the rest in. [/ QUOTE ] Nah. If you shove, he's going to scratch his head and think that you think he's stealing and call thinking you have a smaller pair. Minraising here, I think, minimizes expectation a lot. You'll get looked up 100% of the time, but he can still call and have plenty of chips. Shoving is like hero saying "WTF, does he have a king, well, I have 99!" You don't need to be called 100% of the time for the shove to be more +EV. Less. Barry [/ QUOTE ] If you were stealing you would have done it on the flop or the turn. If he has anything good he's gonna get it all in. If he doesn't he won't call a shove. If you shove he doens't necessarily stack off with a small pair. He may call a min-raise however. His bet stinks like a block bet to get to showdown. I want him to look us up 100% of the time. Just because you hate the move, don't mean this this ins't the place. Come on Barry... be a min-raising donk once in your life. [/ QUOTE ] Joe: Seriously, look at the action. I don't mind minraising and I use it every once in a while - mostly on situations where I have no other alternative to get $$ in. You just said "if he has anything good, he'll get it in." OK, if he has a K, which is VERRRY possible, what percent of the time do you think he gets it in? I'd say 99.9%. He has a K a lot here, I think. And he has a huge stack and we want to kill it. Say he has A high, which is possible that he's bluffing with it. If you minraise, he MAY call, but I think that the possibility of him calling with a K hoping to hit > calling with an A. I think A may lead the turn here, minimizing chances he's bluffing with it (I would rather check/call river with an A here if I were planning to put my $$ in, btw). He could have a 5, but minraising will lead to the same result as shoving then. So: 1. K: If you minraise, you miss out on tons of value because he'll smooth call. Also, why is he leading out on the turn with a small pair? Seems like the hand would have played out differently (he prob. minraises the turn or something). 2. A: Not as likely as K, minraise gets you a little bit more. 3. 5: Gonna be broke anyway. Here's a well known secret amongst good players: they win tournamnets because they make shoves like this. We try to guarantee value and overestimate our opponent. Well, he get our guarantee, but we should always be looking for the MOST. You just have to shove here. Maybe in a cash game it's different if deeper. Here, shove, IMO. Barry
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#20
10-25-2007, 12:20 PM
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Re: flop monster turn is potential bad card
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Small blind here may not call the shove. Min-raise him!!. That commits his whole stack, allows him to get the rest in. [/ QUOTE ] Nah. If you shove, he's going to scratch his head and think that you think he's stealing and call thinking you have a smaller pair. Minraising here, I think, minimizes expectation a lot. You'll get looked up 100% of the time, but he can still call and have plenty of chips. Shoving is like hero saying "WTF, does he have a king, well, I have 99!" You don't need to be called 100% of the time for the shove to be more +EV. Less. Barry [/ QUOTE ] agree 100%...if we are willing to call a reshove than miniraising is costing us serious value...he may just call putting us on a 5...we have to ignore the fact that he may have quads and concentrate on maximizing profit from worse hands
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