Can you deliberate about this...

[Bork]

Yes you could imagine deliberating about which door to choose. Why wouldn't you be able to imagine that?

I can imagine flying even though I can't fly, and I can imagine being superman and deliberating about whether or not I should fly..

[Philo]

The example is from Peter van Inwagen. I tried to reproduce it as close to the original as possible, but I think it might be read ambiguously put that way, so let me clarify.

When I ask, "Can you imagine deliberating about which door to leave by" I mean (van Inwagen means), "Can you imagine deliberating about leaving from either door, despite the fact that you know that one of the doors is locked and impassable (even though you don't know which door it is)?"

[Allinlife]

The door with small scents of Pascal all over it.

[Philo]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes you could imagine deliberating about which door to choose. Why wouldn't you be able to imagine that?

I can imagine flying even though I can't fly, and I can imagine being superman and deliberating about whether or not I should fly..

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you can imagine yourself flying, but I'm skeptical about whether you can imagine yourself being superman, if by superman you mean Clark Kent. Can you imagine yourself being Napoleon? George Bush?

[Bork]

I think I can imagine being Clark Kent or George Bush as well. Shouldn't you be telling me (us) why I am mistaken?

Van Inwagen's argument that determinists at least sometimes believe indetemernism is pretty compelling IMO. Is that where you are going?

[Philo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I can imagine being Clark Kent or George Bush as well. Shouldn't you be telling me (us) why I am mistaken?

Van Inwagen's argument that determinists at least sometimes believe indetemernism is pretty compelling IMO. Is that where you are going?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just waiting to get some uncontaminated intuitive replies.

The passage from van Inwagen appears in his discussion about whether or not deliberation is an activity, but I was interested in it because I am interested in what the relationship is between conceivability and possibility.

Van Inwagen says, "But all philosophers who have thought about deliberation agree on one point: one cannot deliberate about whether to perform a certain act unless one believes it is possible for one to perform it. (Anyone who doubts that this is indeed the case may find it instructive to imagine that he is in a room with two doors and that he believes one of the doors to be unlocked and the other to be locked and impassable, though he has no idea which is which; let him then attempt to imagine himself deliberating about which door to leave by.)"

On your point about George Bush, I don't think that we can imagine things that are metaphysically impossible, and I think that it is metaphysically impossible for you to be someone other than who you are. That's why I think that it is impossible for you to imagine yourself being George Bush.

[Alex-db]

I'm not sure you have made a point yet.

Is this about the "imagining being a bat - but only actually imagining being a human imagining being a bat" thing?

Tell me both doors are locked, and I can imagine the ability to walk up to one and open it. Perhaps the definition of 'deliberation' is important?

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think I can imagine being Clark Kent or George Bush as well. Shouldn't you be telling me (us) why I am mistaken?

Van Inwagen's argument that determinists at least sometimes believe indetemernism is pretty compelling IMO. Is that where you are going?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just waiting to get some uncontaminated intuitive replies.

The passage from van Inwagen appears in his discussion about whether or not deliberation is an activity, but I was interested in it because I am interested in what the relationship is between conceivability and possibility.

Van Inwagen says, "But all philosophers who have thought about deliberation agree on one point: one cannot deliberate about whether to perform a certain act unless one believes it is possible for one to perform it. (Anyone who doubts that this is indeed the case may find it instructive to imagine that he is in a room with two doors and that he believes one of the doors to be unlocked and the other to be locked and impassable, though he has no idea which is which; let him then attempt to imagine himself deliberating about which door to leave by.)"

On your point about George Bush, I don't think that we can imagine things that are metaphysically impossible, and I think that it is metaphysically impossible for you to be someone other than who you are. That's why I think that it is impossible for you to imagine yourself being George Bush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I can imagine looking like George Bush and having everyone think I am George Bush but I can't really imagine BEING George Bush.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I can imagine looking like George Bush and having everyone think I am George Bush but I can't really imagine BEING George Bush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope somebody expands on this because I can imagine diving into the full swimming pool right now, even though it's empty. I can imagine what it's like to be a bat ( I just doubt that I'm bang on ) and I can imagine being GB and being frustrated because people don't think I look like GB.

what is the actual claim being made?

luckyme

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
Tell me both doors are locked, and I can imagine the ability to walk up to one and open it. Perhaps the definition of 'deliberation' is important?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. and I can imagine pondering which one is the more likely one for somebody to have made an error on, or the lock will slip when I jiggy-roll the knob, trying to recall everything I know about how I came to think they are locked and clues from who told me ...

I waiting for the aha! moment in this thread.

luckyme