2/4 online 77 1stN - Page 2

KitCloudkicker · #11 10-23-2007, 01:10 PM

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Three handed that's RIO not most but a big portion of the time, eh? I'm not saying there aren't good flops; I'm saying that there are very few flops that don't leave us extremely vulnerable.

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I think like 90% of the time you have the best hand and have huge equity on a flop like that.

At least it seems that way when I play. Maybe I run good.

One Outer · #12 10-23-2007, 01:13 PM

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Three handed that's RIO not most but a big portion of the time, eh? I'm not saying there aren't good flops; I'm saying that there are very few flops that don't leave us extremely vulnerable.

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I think like 90% of the time you have the best hand and have huge equity on a flop like that.

At least it seems that way when I play. Maybe I run good.

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You either run good or it's my live play small sample size futzing with my head. Anecdotally, I may just be running badly in these spots for the past few months.

threeducks · #13 10-23-2007, 01:21 PM

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77 is not a small pair. This is perfectly fine.

BTW, it's really hard for the flop to "hit" a pp.

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Yeah, 7.5-1 to flop a set, I heard.

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i think if its 2 or 3 way to the flop and its like K65 or Q62, you hit it pretty hard.

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Here is the hand.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero folds.

I had some outs on the turn and could have taken a free card. If I hit a 7 or an 8 I might have won.

What was the best line here?

Thanks

One Outer · #14 10-23-2007, 01:23 PM

You took the best line.

threeducks · #15 10-23-2007, 01:32 PM

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You took the best line.

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Thanks - I wonder how many mistakes you are allowed in order to be a consistent winner (2bb/100 or 1bb/hr)? Of course, luck messes it up since you can make a mistake and win and you can play right and lose.

The target is zero mistakes. I guess that you can forgive yourself if you make a few small ones.

threeducks · #16 10-24-2007, 09:15 PM

First, I have been taking the line today to raise with JJ+, AQ+, AJs+, KQ+ up front.

Second, Please forgive me, I failed to pass muster. What did I not learn yesterday?

If you have an overpair to the board then you should raise. Are there any exceptions?

I figured the BB for top pair good or best kicker. I figured UTG for a draw - either straight or flush.

But, wait a minute. Would UTG limp with T8 or 66? Live they very well might. A bet from a live player on the loose tables might very well be a straight or even two pair. The 2/4 players online are mostly much better players.

I can not expect him to have hit the turn with anything other than a draw.

So, why did I not raise? MUB. I need to adjust my play for better players.

My one new post for the day and its is a failure. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, 6 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

3'ducks you are a silly idiot - you should have raised! Have you not learned anything - go to the black board and write 100 times!

RAISE OR FOLD!!!

It flashed in my mind - RAISE! but my hand went to the call button.

River: (7.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds.

Two checks, I bet,
BB bet, UTG call/fold, I call,
BB check, UTG bet, tough call to make but I call.
BB bet, UTG raise, I fold.

threeducks · #17 10-24-2007, 09:40 PM

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First, I have been taking the line today to raise with JJ+, AQ+, AJs+, KQ+ up front.

Second, Please forgive me, I failed to pass muster. What did I not learn yesterday?

If you have an overpair to the board then you should raise. Are there any exceptions?

I figured the BB for top pair good or best kicker. I figured UTG for a draw - either straight or flush.

But, wait a minute. Would UTG limp with T8 or 66? Live they very well might. A bet from a live player on the loose tables might very well be a straight or even two pair. The 2/4 players online are mostly much better players.

I can not expect him to have hit the turn with anything other than a draw.

So, why did I not raise? MUB. I need to adjust my play for better players.

My one new post for the day and its is a failure. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, 6 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

3'ducks you are a silly idiot - you should have raised! Have you not learned anything - go to the black board and write 100 times!

RAISE OR FOLD!!!

It flashed in my mind - RAISE! but my hand went to the call button.

River: (7.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds.

Two checks, I bet,
BB bet, UTG call/fold, I call,
BB check, UTG bet, tough call to make but I call.
BB bet, UTG raise, I fold.

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Maybe this hand will get me some forgiveness:

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $2.
3 folds, MP1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero raises, Button folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero Raises, MP1 calls.

River: (7.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

jeffnc · #18 10-25-2007, 10:44 AM

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I got 7-7 after 3 players have folded and I raised. I got 3 callers which is one too many.

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I'd call it 2 too many. Or 1 too few. Depends on your point of view.

If you had limped, you might have gotten 4 or 5, which would have been better than 3. Limping in LLHE is often just fine. Of course raising is too. Depends on the hand, and just because this one didn't go as planned is not enough evidence to argue one way or the other.

There is no sense in folding mid pocket pairs in most loose limit games. Limp if you aren't comfortable with raising, especially in early position. As has been mentioned, limping often causes a cascade of limping. I call it the self-fulfilling pot odds effect. If you fold, you see them all fold and convince yourself you did the right thing. However if you called they might have all called, and then you made a big mistake.

One Outer · #19 10-25-2007, 01:02 PM

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As has been mentioned, limping often causes a cascade of limping. I call it the self-fulfilling pot odds effect. If you fold, you see them all fold and convince yourself you did the right thing. However if you called they might have all called, and then you made a big mistake.

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QFT X 1000

Another thing I see, but only live, is the cascade of calling when there's an early position raise. The fishies see a big pot developing and want to be part of it. So I guess that means that at certain tables anything you would limp with you could also raise with because they're often playing crap they would have otherwise folded because the pot is so big.

The pokers others plays makes no sense to me.