15k gtd on FT: AQ, two barrel semibluff? - Page 2

erc007 · #11 10-11-2007, 09:59 PM

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If you're going to squeeze here, make it 900 pre and open-shove any flop.

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erc...I don't like it...why do we assume the OR has nothing? At this level why are we looking to play a monster pot OOP with AQ off with no reads and possibly two pairs out there who could get stubborn...seems overly fancy for the sake of being fancy...900 bet to win the measley 300 in the pot is spew IMO...finally if we raise to 900 are we folding to a push??

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I wasn't really advocating a squeeze here...that depends on reads/your image and other stuff that wasn't mentioned by OP...i was just saying that 3-betting to only 600 is not the way to play AQ OOP. FWIW, unless MP/OR is really tight, we are ahead of his opening range. I'd have to reference the OP to see what odds we would be getting if he shoves.

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erc...may bad if a bit strong...I guess my real point is why squeeze with an ok hand with no real gain...blinds are tiny and too early for detailed reads...If we raise to 600 (which again I don't like at all) we can fold to a push...if we go 900 we have to do more math than we should have to in this spot...Also if we are cold called on either are we going to the mat with an A high or Q high flop? I think we have too and I don't figure we are ahead enough

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NP...you make a good point and i would prob just call here. As played OP got a pretty big break (after his c-bet was called) when the turn was a spade. My main prob with the way OP played the hand is that stack sizes make two-barrelling EV- since he has very little FE on an non K turn.

ssnyc · #12 10-11-2007, 10:04 PM

good time for us all to be trying to put the villan on a hand here...looks a lot like a mid pair to maybe even JJ (pretty good fit)...at these stakes you may even get called down by AK...ballsy but if the villan folded to less than a pot sized shove...the whole hand is awkward for a two barrel bluff..erc...I think if we want to bluff this we need a plan and I think we are just bulling ahead without taking any data from his reactions

Coz · #13 10-11-2007, 11:41 PM

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chip...he raised 3.5X and called your 15 X raise pre...what do you think he has? Alo raise pre seems wayyyy too much...in fact in BB I would either just call or fold here...why build a monstr pot with AQ OOP? Once you did that I like the flop bet but that's all she wrote...villan calls 1400 I don't think they will fold anywhere down the line...just dont see the point in such an aggressive move without reads and this early

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Think we are on same wave lengths today ssync, I am too tired to right something as good as you wrote so I will just continue to quote you. I think calling is a good move as well. I have also found that flops like those are absolutly terrible to c-bet, people are floating you and you are never getting a pair to fold. I like to check it, and if I hit an A on the turn barring no outstanding draws, check/call turn and lead river, making it look like a bluff. As ssync said preflop raise is way too much, calling is better. Flop and turn are spewing.

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coz...thanks for the vote of confidence...worst part is I'm seeing the game as well as ever (I hope) but hit a brick wall when actually playing...I tend to review my hands pretty closely and I think I'm playing the same as when I am winning so the mighty bitch variance has decided to come after me...

Taking the weekend off which is hard for an addict like me so my jones is coming through the forum!!!

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Thats cool, taking a break for me when I get frustrated or worn out is awesome because I find myself thinking better when I come back to it. I also use this forum alot when I am on breaks, keeps me thinking about the game. Have a good weekend. I think you are a pretty good poster, so just keep grinding it out and hopefully things will work out for both of us.

Rocco · #14 10-12-2007, 04:53 AM

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chip...he raised 3.5X and called your 15 X raise pre...what do you think he has? Alo raise pre seems wayyyy too much...in fact in BB I would either just call or fold here...why build a monstr pot with AQ OOP? Once you did that I like the flop bet but that's all she wrote...villan calls 1400 I don't think they will fold anywhere down the line...just dont see the point in such an aggressive move without reads and this early

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First, it's even worse... You misread the post, Villain in this hand is CO, who cold-called the opening raise of 3.5xBB and then also cold-called OP's re-raise. It's bad to take such an aggressive line with a bluff against a PF raiser, but it's even more bad to do against someone who cold-called twice pre-flop. I can't put Villain on any other hand than mid/strong PP, and he's clearly not folding. Of course, there's always a remote chance Villain played AJ-AK badly or he's folding a mid pair, but they won't do it often enough to make this play +EV.

OP, I limit my two-barrelling to situations when I open-raise and get one caller... Also, I think stack sizes are not perfect to re-raise with AQ and having to play OOP. Calling or shoving is better than raising IMO.

authority11 · #15 10-12-2007, 07:56 AM

Your PFR is too big. I'd make it about 450-500 to go and then 1/2-2/3 pot CBET on the flop. Once he calls, I shut down. CO is easily holding a mid-PP here and doesn't buy your story.

black666 · #16 10-12-2007, 09:25 AM

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At this level why are we looking to play a monster pot OOP with AQ off with no reads and possibly two pairs out there who could get stubborn

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QFT

Chipchucker5 · #17 10-12-2007, 10:31 AM

Thanks for all the responses guys. In-game, my first instinct was to just call pf, but then a squeeze just seemed like an easy way to pick up the 300 out there. And even if I don't pick it up pre, I'm showing a lot of strength and I'm probably picking it up on the flop a lot of times given that villain's pf range is probably something like AJ+, KQ, 22+ and maybe some SC's.

Once he called the flop bet, I felt pretty confident he had a pp (as most of you also were putting him on). And I thought he would fold the lower ones and maybe even 88 or 99 since I felt like I could really rep an overpair.

As far as my pf raise goes, it's just a pot sized raise...I thought that was pretty standard for a squeeze, especially being OOP. No?

Please jot down any more thoughts if you have any, and thanks again for the discussion.

Cheers,
Mike

ssnyc · #18 10-12-2007, 10:38 AM

chip...again 300 chips may seem like a lot but it really isnt huge at this stage...further your hand has too much value to turn it into a bluff!!!! squeeze with lesser hands...as I asked before what are you doing if he pushes? Also if you had AA or KK why would you make a PS c-bet? I think the bug bet looks more like AK AQ trying to bully it down...finaly if he calls that big a bet on flop what is he folding to another? I understand that some people will get stubborn and fold to a second barrel but it may not be oftn enough to make it EV

also for what it's worth i used to do this a lot and still slip...almost always get picked off...tough to start a bluff and leave your soldiers alone out there but sometimes it works out better

BarryLyndon · #19 10-12-2007, 10:42 AM

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I'm new to the table, and I don't recognize villain. Is this a good spot to be aggro or just spewy?

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t40 (9 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Hero (t3385)
UTG (t5776)
UTG+1 (t3652)
MP1 (t540)
MP2 (t2504)
MP3 (t1854)
CO (t4364)
Button (t1570)
SB (t1263)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 raises to t140, CO calls t140, 2 folds, Hero raises to t600, MP3 folds, CO calls t460.

Flop: (t1360) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t800, CO calls t800.

Turn: (t2960) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t1985 (All-In)

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Would you like to make a prop bet that you lost this hand?

Barry
PS: OK, ok, so you call on the flop, reasonable. I check/fold here. If you think that villain is a habitual c-bettor and can get away from small pairs, c-raise here is best, it will [censored] him up badly. You know know him, so you just let this one go.

Donk leading on this board for two streets is like putting your [censored] in a vice and turning the knob.

Chipchucker5 · #20 10-12-2007, 10:54 AM

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chip...again 300 chips may seem like a lot but it really isnt huge at this stage...further your hand has too much value to turn it into a bluff!!!! squeeze with lesser hands...as I asked before what are you doing if he pushes? Also if you had AA or KK why would you make a PS c-bet? I think the bug bet looks more like AK AQ trying to bully it down...finaly if he calls that big a bet on flop what is he folding to another? I understand that some people will get stubborn and fold to a second barrel but it may not be oftn enough to make it EV

also for what it's worth i used to do this a lot and still slip...almost always get picked off...tough to start a bluff and leave your soldiers alone out there but sometimes it works out better

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Yeah, I agree that 300 chips really isn't that much. However, I'm not sure I agree with only squeezing with lesser hands for a couple of reasons. One being that a hand like AQ is going to flop top pair a good bit more than connecting cards and such. Secondly, in the long run, if I'm only reraising weakish hands, my opponents will pick up on this and can call or 4bet me light.

After my raise, I guess I would probably fold to a shove from the CO. Now I remember another reason why I squeezed, that being I was kind of hoping the original raiser would come back over top and we could get it AIPF with a little dead money out there.

I agree that the turn shove is probably not +EV and that I should have just given up. It was one of those times where your brain tells you to do one thing, but your hand does another...god I hate when that happens.