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#14
10-10-2007, 01:20 PM
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Re: AQo spew or brilliance?
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, my bad. I see that now. Sorry! [/ QUOTE ] haha I was starting to doubt myself haha. and I may or may not be correct on the raise against a high showdown bound player. No math to back it up..just thinking out loud. 
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#15
10-10-2007, 03:28 PM
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Re: AQo spew or brilliance?
[ QUOTE ]
So now you are saying hero should raise for value? No no no. I am sorry and I am sorry OP. But raising is just outright retarded and there is no way around it. He is not folding a better hand and if he has a worse hand he will almost always fire river which means that when he folds you gained nothing. Just call down and let him barrel off [/ QUOTE ] oink called someone retarded, lmao [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] really, that turn card is just so, so bad for your hand. If he had a gutshot, you are losing. All you beat is air and flush draws now. I'm not folding the turn to this guy, but if a club hits the river, I think you can fold.
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#17
10-11-2007, 01:12 PM
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Re: AQo spew or brilliance?
[ QUOTE ]
Villain is a 50/30/2 LAG I play with alot. He's not bad but he'll bluff alot at obvious spots and sometimes not so obvious spots. I know he plays any A like this on low garbage flops. I'd say his range is any pair, trips, Ax, any fd, and then a decent percentage of random bluffs with overs. so spew or no spew? Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $5/$10 4 players Converter Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls. Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6SB, 3 players) SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, Hero calls. Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, BB calls. River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9BB, 2 players) BB checks, Hero checks. [/ QUOTE ] I like it. It is essentially a free showdown raise. On a paired board with no broadways you plan to go to showdown with AQ against most tough players, and certainly against a bluffer. I like the raise on the turn as long as you plan to fold to a 3 bet, or to a donk on the river if you don't improve. The idea is that you plan to invest only two more bets to try to win this pot unimproved. You are putting the two bets both in at once on the turn. The advantage of just calling the turn is that your two bet investment will always get you to showdown. But the free showdown raise has the advantage of sometimes getting a better hand to fold, and sometimes making more money if you hit your hand on the river.
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#18
10-11-2007, 01:20 PM
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Re: AQo spew or brilliance?
[ QUOTE ]
the problem is that you have 6 outs to improve, and this type of players might semi-bluff 3-bet a draw on the turn (which would be a disaster here). This isn't a great spot for a FSDr because you can't safely fold to a 3-bet, [/ QUOTE ] I disagree. Most of the time when he three bets we have no outs. If he three bet semi-bluffs, give it to him. If he has to invest that much money in a bluff we will beat him in the long run as we will be getting paid very well when we have a strong hand.
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#19
10-11-2007, 01:25 PM
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Re: AQo spew or brilliance?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] the problem is that you have 6 outs to improve, and this type of players might semi-bluff 3-bet a draw on the turn (which would be a disaster here). This isn't a great spot for a FSDr because you can't safely fold to a 3-bet, [/ QUOTE ] I disagree. Most of the time when he three bets we have no outs. If he three bet semi-bluffs, give it to him. If he has to invest that much money in a bluff we will beat him in the long run as we will be getting paid very well when we have a strong hand. [/ QUOTE ] I have and will continue to 3-bet semi-bluff against TAGs who I have a note that will make bad FSDrs. And LAGs will most certainly 3-bet draws and made hands on the turn. so I think you are very likely to have outs here against his range, and often a full 6 outs. Raising the turn and then folding to a 3-bet is a pretty horrible outcome for you. So how do you avoid it? don't raise the turn with a hand that doesn't equate to a FSD situation.
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#20
10-11-2007, 01:27 PM
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Re: AQo spew or brilliance?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Villain is a 50/30/2 LAG I play with alot. He's not bad but he'll bluff alot at obvious spots and sometimes not so obvious spots. I know he plays any A like this on low garbage flops. I'd say his range is any pair, trips, Ax, any fd, and then a decent percentage of random bluffs with overs. so spew or no spew? Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $5/$10 4 players Converter Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls. Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6SB, 3 players) SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, Hero calls. Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, BB calls. River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9BB, 2 players) BB checks, Hero checks. [/ QUOTE ] I like it. It is essentially a free showdown raise. On a paired board with no broadways you plan to go to showdown with AQ against most tough players, and certainly against a bluffer. I like the raise on the turn as long as you plan to fold to a 3 bet, or to a donk on the river if you don't improve. The idea is that you plan to invest only two more bets to try to win this pot unimproved. You are putting the two bets both in at once on the turn. The advantage of just calling the turn is that your two bet investment will always get you to showdown. But the free showdown raise has the advantage of sometimes getting a better hand to fold, and sometimes making more money if you hit your hand on the river. [/ QUOTE ] also make note, if you haven't noticed in online 6max limit, noone ever folds a pair. ever. You aren't ever folding out any hands that have you beat for 1BB.
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