3/6 JJ multiway on low flop

[silenced]

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calling

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and folding to his shove on turn 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]?

[wheelz]

but you didn't actually fold the flop now did you?

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ya i was villain

[Praetor]

it depends, you can be in just as many [censored] spots if you 3 bet

[silenced]

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it depends, you can be in just as many [censored] spots if you 3 bet

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true but i feel hands are more defined if ya feelz me

[Pasterbator]

Calling PF is just fine (so is squeezing if you rr lots).

But if you're calling PF, and this happens, OMGDONTFOLD.

Call here and get it in on most turns. He certainly can't put you on JJ...

[Veron]

Nice to see a lot of discussion!
I'd like to discuss villain's hand ranges a bit more.

Once he cold-calls an UTG raise in MP, what hand are in his range? (he's 21/17)

And now he bets this flop after the PFR checks and there are 2 more players left with an undefined range, what hands can he have from his PF range?

[David1234]

your also in position, I think this flop is an ez call

[wheelz]

yeah no one's folding the flop veron, i think you should've just posted the turn action it's much more interesting.

[freekie]

i call this 80 % of the time EVERYTIME

[Veron]

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yeah no one's folding the flop veron, i think you should've just posted the turn action it's much more interesting.

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hehe, good read. I didn't fold flop obviously.

However, I don't agree with the consensus that I'm way ahead of villain's range at all. People who advocate calling and getting it in on the turn must have some kind of crazy image as I'm sure you well very rarely be ahead when you get it in on a blank turn.

First of all I think that a 21/17 player's cold-calling range in MP vs a UTG Raise (UTG in the hand is a solid 22/17 player as well, should have mentioned that) is narrow and very skewed towards pocket pairs.

something like: all pairs <QQ, AQ, AQs, KQs, QJs, JTs. This is a very narrow range but I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

Once he bets the flop into the field his range is probably all sets and FD's that were in his preflop range, I really don't see him making a play with anything else in this spot.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

11,880 games 0.031 secs 383,225 games/sec

Board: Th 5h 3d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 18.274% 18.27% 00.00% 2171 0.00 { JdJs }
Hand 1: 81.726% 81.73% 00.00% 9709 0.00 { TT, 55, 33, AhQh, KhQh, QhJh }

This stove is definitely on the tight side, but I'm confident it's not way out of line.

It looks like I'm the only one, but I think the flop is a fold, as weak as it may be to underrepresent a big pair preflop and then fold it on the flop for 1 bet.

I'm definitely open for discussion and I hope to get more feedback about villain's hand range instead of 1 liner replies