Were we better off in a state of nature?

[luckyme]

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Perhaps the Amish way of living ....

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Is that still treated as a way of LIVING?
hmmmmph.
I'm pretty sure it rests just above water torture or galley slavery. What a terrible thing to do to a human mind, or perhaps .. why have one?
Maybe that's your point. We all go in for the lobotomy and presto... noble vegetables.

luckyme

[pzhon]

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Were we better off in a state of nature?

How credible was the concept of the Noble Savage?

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It was and is very credible. Far more credible than it is right. Did you mean to ask about something other than whether that myth was believable?

Many anthropologists have studied this issue (at least, the true state of the remaining hunter-gatherers and similar groups) for most of their careers. Maybe you should look up some of their conclusions.

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Is it appropriate to say that the Amish might be considered to be the modern Noble Savage?

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No, not unless you want to redefine a lot of terms such as "Amish," "Noble Savage," or "appropriate."

The Noble Savage is supposed to be pure, uncorrupted by civilization, not uncorrupted by constant contact with unbelievers, technology, expressions of pride, and evil.

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Is it possible that we could study the Amish as a means for creating a better society?

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Sure. Why not? Please don't start by overromanticizing the Amish, who still have many social problems.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that still treated as a way of LIVING?
hmmmmph.
I'm pretty sure it rests just above water torture or galley slavery. What a terrible thing to do to a human mind, or perhaps .. why have one?
Maybe that's your point. We all go in for the lobotomy and presto... noble vegetables.

luckyme

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\
they're not in debt, how many americans can say that.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is that still treated as a way of LIVING?
hmmmmph.
I'm pretty sure it rests just above water torture or galley slavery. What a terrible thing to do to a human mind, or perhaps .. why have one?
Maybe that's your point. We all go in for the lobotomy and presto... noble vegetables.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]
\
they're not in debt, how many americans can say that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure we should follow the path of the aborigine. They're not fat, and how many Americans can say that?

[PLOlover]

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I'm pretty sure we should follow the path of the aborigine. They're not fat, and how many Americans can say that?

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that's not a part and parcel of civilization.

DUCY?

[coberst]

Ernest Becker has woven a great tapestry, which represents his answer to the question ‘what are we humans doing, why are we doing it, and how can we do it better?’

Becker has written four books “Beyond Alienation”, “Escape from Evil”, “Denial of Death”, and “The Birth and Death of Meaning”; all of which are essential components of his tapestry. Ernest Becker (1924-1974), a distinguished social theorist, popular teacher of anthropology and sociology psychology, won the Pulitzer Prize for General Nonfiction for the “Denial of Death”.

Many weeks ago a forum member suggested that I might be interested in the author Ernest Becker and I was given the following web site.
http://faculty.washington.edu/nelgee...lomonsound.htm This is a great one hour audio about Becker’s ideas given by a very good lecturer.

Becker provides the reader with a broad and comprehensible synopsis of the accomplishments of the sciences of anthropology, psychology, sociology, and psychiatry. Knowledge of these accomplishments provides the modern reader with the means for the comprehension of why humans do as they do.

Becker declares that these sciences prove that humans are not genetically driven to be the evil creatures that the reader of history might conclude them to be. We humans are victims of the societies that we create in our effort to flee the anxiety of death. We have created artificial meanings that were designed to hide our anxieties from our self; in this effort we have managed to create an evil far surpassing any that our natural animal nature could cause.

Becker summarizes this synoptic journey of discovery with a suggested solution, which if we were to change the curriculums in our colleges and universities we could develop a citizenry with the necessary understanding to restructure our society in a manner less destructive and more in tune with our human nature.

The only disagreement I have with Becker’s tapestry is in this solution he offers. I am convinced that he has failed to elaborate on an important step that is implied in his work but not given sufficient emphasis. That step is one wherein the general adult population takes up the responsibility that citizens of a democracy must take on; adults must develop a hobby “get a life—get an intellectual life”. In other words, it will be necessary that a significant share of the general population first comprehend these matters sufficiently to recognize the need for the proposed changes to our colleges and universities.

[Metric]

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Two words:

Voluntary society.

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Exactly. If you want to live in a cave, I'm not stopping you. Personally, though, I'm going to examine and learn how to exploit every conceivable aspect of nature -- if the cave dwellers will but stay out of my way, there will be no trouble.

[coberst]

Bill Moyer has a video wherein he discusses the book “Amish Grace” that you might find to be very interesting regarding the Amish response to their tragedy. Compare that Amish response to their tragedy and the response of America to our 9/11 tragedy.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10052007/watch4.html

[MidGe]

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Were we better off in a state of nature?

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What? Where do you come from, dude. we are the result of nature, and, in a way, so are automobiles and nuclear power stations, etc...

I think that your view of yourself, and human beings, is hugely inflated when you put us, sort of, outside nature, in some ways. It surely is not the way of solving problems we may be able to solve! LOL

[CORed]

If you think we were better off in the "state of nature", a winter or two in Minnesota in a house without central heating or indoor plumbing (or better yet, a teepee) should clarify your thinking. If that doesn't do it bury a couple of your kids who died of something easily curable or preventable by modern medicine.