25NL, JJ hits a middle set on scary board. Am I a fish for shoving?

[AZplaya]

as played gotta get your chips in the middle. But putting BB on AA - QQ, AKs pre and then still playing your jacks is lol.

[Peleus]

Fair call bored.

[TheOTrain]

Thanks Maunzekater for explanations -- it makes sense.

[ QUOTE ]
fold pf. set mining with JJ = usually a bad idea. if you're going to play it, repop pf. you read him for AA-QQ or AK, all of which dominate you or you are flipping against, so you fold or repop, nothing else. think of it this way; if you have 33 here, what do you do? fold? why, because you're probably dominated and are set mining? same concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, I think this piece of advice just boosted my game to the next level...

Just to clarify: aren't there implied odds that someone will pay you off if the board comes Jxx and your opponent has an overpair (you're holding JJ in this example)?

Or are you saying that if you're 90% sure you've put someone on a bigger hand than you, then fold (ie: AA-QQ vs JJ).

Am I misusing the concept of 'implied odds' here?

In 6max, shouldn't you be more prone to set mining anyways? Especially if people are more agro than full ring?

[Effen]

Shove + fistpump.

Hang head.

Reload.

[mecbluefugate]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Maunzekater for explanations -- it makes sense.

[ QUOTE ]
fold pf. set mining with JJ = usually a bad idea. if you're going to play it, repop pf. you read him for AA-QQ or AK, all of which dominate you or you are flipping against, so you fold or repop, nothing else. think of it this way; if you have 33 here, what do you do? fold? why, because you're probably dominated and are set mining? same concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, I think this piece of advice just boosted my game to the next level...

Just to clarify: aren't there implied odds that someone will pay you off if the board comes Jxx and your opponent has an overpair (you're holding JJ in this example)?

Or are you saying that if you're 90% sure you've put someone on a bigger hand than you, then fold (ie: AA-QQ vs JJ).

Am I misusing the concept of 'implied odds' here?

In 6max, shouldn't you be more prone to set mining anyways? Especially if people are more agro than full ring?

[/ QUOTE ]


the concept of implied odds are still there, but you don't want to have to pay too much to get them.
in other words, even if you think he'll stack off with AA-QQ if you flop your set, it wouldn't be profitable to call a raise of, say, half your stack preflop, because of those times your jack doesnt hit.
obviously this is an exaggeration, but the point is, you don't want to pay too much to set mine.
i think the general rule is if it is less than 5% of your stack to call, call. more than 10%, fold. in between, consider player tendencies, etc.

[gedanken]

this really isn't a great flop for you:

Board: Jh Td Kd
equity win tie pots won pots tied
BB: 34.004% 32.04% 01.96% 863933 52950.00 { TT+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ }
Button: 10.134% 08.17% 01.96% 220323 52938.00 { 55+, ATs+, KQs, QJs, AKo }
Hero: 55.861% 55.48% 00.38% 1496058 10156.00 { JcJd }


so shoving still looks good, but it's a tough-luck flop in a way. You'll win more often than not, just not by a wide margin. Maybe that fold pre is looking better?